>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, LOCAL AND NATIONAL ACTIONS STRENGHTEN THE FIGHT FOR VOTING RIGHTS, OVER 300,000 STUDENTS GET A BREAK ON STUDENT LOAN DEBT, AND WE'LL TALK TO THE DOCTOR ABOUT PFIZER'S FDA APPROVED VACCINE.

STAY WITH US!

♪ >> WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THIS WEEK 2 BIG DECISIONS EXPANDING THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

HERE IN NORTH CAROLINA JUDGES VOTED IN THE CIVIL CASE CSI V MOORE TO EXTEND THE RIGHT TO FORMERLY CONVICTED INDIVIDUALS.

AND IN WASHINGTON, THE HOUSE PASSED THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND IT IS NOW IN THE HANDS OF THE SENATE.

THE CASE IN NORTH CAROLINA NAMED THE COMMUNITY SUCCESS INITIATIVE AND OTHERS AS PLAINTIFFS AND HOUSE SPEAKER TIM MOORE, THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS AND OTHERS AS DEFENDANTS.

WHAT'S NEXT?

I'D LIKE TO WELCOME JOURNALIST MARY C. CURTIS OF THE EQUAL TIME PODCAST, ATTORNEY JESSICA HOLMES AND DAWN BLAGROVE OF EMANCIPATE NC.

DAWN IS ALSO A LICENSED ATTORNEY.

I'M GONNA OPEN UP WITH YOU DAWN.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM ALL 3 OF YOU.

BUT DAWN CAN YOU SHARE WITH US THAT BEFORE THIS LEGISLATION OR THIS DECISION RATHER WHAT WAS NORTH CAROLINA'S LAW REGARDING THE VOTING RIGHTS OF FORMALLY CONVICTED INDIVIDUALS AND WHAT HAS CHANGED AFTER THAT 2 TO ONE DECISION AND IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND EXPLAIN TO US THAT THAT EXPRESSION FORMALLY CONVICTED AND YOU KNOW VERSUS INCARCERATED I'VE SEEN A LOT OF HEADLINES THAT SAY FORMER FELONS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU FIRST FOR HAVING ME, AND I THINK THE LANGUAGE AROUND THE WAY WE TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN JUSTICE INVOLVED IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AND IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE LEFT IT HERE SO THE REASON THAT WE WANT TO AVOID THE WORD FELON THE PRIMARY AND ONLY DESCRIPTOR OF AN INDIVIDUAL IS BECAUSE IT IS USED IN A WAY THAT IS DEMEANING IT HAS A NEGATIVE CONNOTATION.

AND IT CONNECTS PEOPLE TO PERPETUALLY TO THE WORST TIMES IN THEIR LIFE.

IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT AS WE TALK ABOUT PEOPLE, AND SUPPORT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE, THAT WE ALLOW FOLKS TO EXIST BEYOND THE LABELS OF CRIMINALITY.

SO IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE STOP USING WORDS LIKE FELONS TO DEVOTE TO DESCRIBE AN ENTIRE GROUP OF PEOPLE AND START USING WORDS THAT ARE MORE HUMANIZING.

>> THANK YOU FOR THAT DISTINCTION AND SO WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE NOW?

THEY HAD RIGHTS BEFORE, BUT NOW WITH THIS JUDGE'S RULING WHAT'S CHANGED SO WHAT HAS CHANGED IS THIS.

PREVIOUSLY PEOPLE WHO WERE ON PROBATION OR PAROLE, THAT MEANS PEOPLE WHO ARE JUSTICE INVOLVED.

BUT ARE NOT PHYSICALLY CONFINED INSIDE OF A STATE PRISON WERE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE UNTIL THEY COMPLETED THEIR PROBATION OR THEIR PAROLE.

THIS RULING ALLOWS THOSE PEOPLE SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 50 TO 56,000 PEOPLE IN NORTH CAROLINA - 42% OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE BLACK - THE RIGHT TO VOTE AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT PHYSICALLY INCARCERATED BY THE NORTH CAROLINA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS.

>> AND JESSICA HOW QUICKLY DOES THIS GOING TO AFFECT THEMN?

HOW PERMANENT IS IT?

>> THE REALITY IS THAT AS OF THIS RULING EVERYONE ON FELONY PROBATION, PAROLE OR POST SUPERVISION RELEASE CAN REGISTER TO VOTE NOW.

THE COURTS HAD THIS JUDGEMENT BE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY SUCH THAT INDIVIDUALS THAT FALL UNDER THIS CRITERIA ARE ABLE TO VOTE IN THE 2021 MUNICIPAL RACES.

IN TERMS OF HOW PERMANENT THIS IS, THAT HAS YET TO BE SEEN.

WE CERTAINLY ANTICIPATE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TO FILE AN APPEAL, AND APPEAL THAT WILL NOT BE FILED BY ATTORNEY GENERAL JOSH STEIN HAS HE WAS BEING QUOTE FIRED OR REMOVED FROM THE CASE, BECAUSE HE WOULD NOT AN IMMEDIATE APPEAL AFTER THE RULING AND SO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS RETAINED PRIVATE COUNCIL.

SO AS OF RIGHT NOW, OUT THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE ABLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE AND ANTICIPATE THAT THEY'LL BE ABLE TO VOTE IN THE OCTOBER MUNICIPAL ELECTIONS, HOWEVER, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FINAL OUTCOME WILL BE SHOULD AN APPEAL BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> JESSICA WAS THAT THE ACTUAL PUBLIC STATED REASON WHY JOSH STEIN WAS "FIRED"?

>> ACTUALLY YES.

THERE WAS A LETTER THAT WAS SENT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ON AUGUST 23RD, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DIDN'T OURRIGHT SAY, "NO I'M NOT GOING TO PUT FORTH AN APPEAL" WHAT HE STATED WAS BECAUSE THE DECISION WAS AN ORAL DECISION, IT WAS NOT A WRITTEN LEGAL OPINION.

THEREFORE HE SAID HIS OFFICE ON A TECHNICALITY COULD NOT MOVE FORWARD WITH THE APPEAL UNTIL THERE WAS A WRITTEN OPINON, AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY COULD NOT WAIT THEY DECIDED THEY WANTED AN IMMEDIATE APPEAL TO BE FILED AND THEREFORE THEY DECIDED NOT TO WAIT ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THEREFORE THEY DECIDED THEY WOULD THEMSELVES RETAIN PRIVATE COUNSEL.

AGAIN THIS WHOLE SCENARIO IS VERY UNUSUAL.

>> WELL THANK YOU FOR THAT CLARIFICATION.

MARY IT IS NO DOUBT NO QUESTION THAT FOR A LONG TIME.

THERE HAD BEEN RACE-BASED LAWS ON THE BOOKS AND EVEN THE DEFENDANTS IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME RACES POLICIES BUT IN THIS CASE WE'RE DEFENDING THE LAW THAT WE HAVE CAN YOU HELP US UNDERSTAND BETTER WHERE THEY WERE AND WHAT THE POLITICS ARE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THIS PARTICULAR DECISION?

>> WELL IT'S NOTHING BUT POLITICS, IN MY OPINION.

I MEAN IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY WEEK IN MY ROLL CALL COLUMN OR ON THE PODCAST, WE ARE DEALING WITH THE ISSUE OF VOTING RIGHTS.

AND IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THAT EVEN POST CIVIL WAR THERE HAVE BEEN WAYS THAT THE MAJORITY HAS LOOKED TO DISENFRANCHISE THE AFRICAN AMERICAN MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY, THEIR VOICE.

BUT THEY CAN SAY THE LAW ITSELF WELL, IT IS RACE NEUTRAL.

BUT WE KNOW IT HAS DISPARATE EFFECTS.

AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS IN THE CONTEXT OF ALL OF THESE LAWS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY NOW.

THAT ARE TRYING TO SAY IN THE NAME OF THE ELECTION INTEGRITY PROTECTING THE VOTE, BUT IN REALITY, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO TRY TO CUT IN AND DISENFRANCHISE AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS PARTICULARLY, LOOK AT THE CENSUS NUMBERS AND MINORITIES ARE GROWING IN THIS COUNTRY.

SO WE HAVE SEEN THAT THAT IS BEHIND SO MANY OF THESE LAWS PARTICULARLY COMING UP WITH THAT MIDTERM ELECTIONS IN 2022 AND THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN 2024 AND PARTICULARLY IN THE STATES OF THE FORMER CONFEDERACY, LIKE NORTH CAROLINA, YOU HAVE SEEN THESE LAWS.

ACTUALLY THIS ONE WHICH AGAIN WITH WHICH IS THE VOTE IS ACTUALLY QUITE IT'S REALLY HISTORY MAKING FOR A STATE OF THE FORMER CONFEDERACY WHICH IS WHY YOU CAN SEE THAT THE DEFENDANTS ARE FIGHTING IT.

>> THAT'S SO INTERESTING YOUR ANALYSIS.

DAWN I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON NEXT STEPS IN TURN, - THE BATTLE FOR VOTING RIGHTS AND THEN THE WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT BALLOT INTEGRITY THEY GET A LITTLE MURKY, THEY KIND OF A CROSS PATHS IN STRANGE WAYS, BUT IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO THE BALLOT AND THAT THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO REPRESENTATION WHETHER THEY ARE INCARCERATED, OR USED TO BE INCARCERATED OR NOT, WHAT'S THE NEXT FRONTIER FOR MAKING SURE THAT THERE IS EQUAL ACCESS TO THE BALLOT?

>> SO THE NEXT FRONTIER IS THAT WE NEED TO AS A COMMUNITY, AND AS A STATE TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY PERSON WHO HAS BEEN FORMALLY INCARCERATED OR WHO HAS BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY, UNDERSTANDS, HAS ACCESS TO, AND IS ABLE TO FILL OUT THAT VOTER REGISTRATION FORM, SO THAT THEY CAN GET ON THE ROADS LEGALLY.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS HAPPENING WE NEED TO RAISE AWARENESS AROUND THE STATE THAT THIS CHANGE HAS HAPPENED, THIS CHANGE HAS TAKEN PLACE AND THAT THESE PEOPLE NOW HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

WE ALSO NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE INSIDIOUS NATURE OF THESE KINDS OF LAWS AND THE WAY WE'RE SEEING THEM PROMULGATED ACROSS THE STATE.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, VERY OFTEN WE HEAR.

ACTIVISTS TALK ABOUT SYSTEMIC AND INSTITUTIONAL RACISM.

THESE TYPES OF LAWS THAT APPEAR RACE NEUTRAL BUT HAVE THE IMPACT OF CREATING A DISPARATE NEGATIVE OUTCOME FOR BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES, IS EXACTLY WHAT SYSTEMIC AND INSTITUTIONAL RACISM LOOKS LIKE, AND WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY IT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND MARY WANT TO BRING YOU IN BECAUSE WE MENTIONED THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

AND THE FACT THAT IT IS NOW IN THE HANDS OF THE SENATE, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE IMPORTANCE OF EITHER DOING AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER OR THE CHANCES OF DOING AWAY WITH THE FILIBUSTER OR THE CHANCES OF SURVIVAL FOR THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WITH THE SENATE.

>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING WHEN I HAVE A MAJORITY WITH [INAUDIBLE] ON HE SAID THAT UNLESS THESE LAWS ARE PASSED THAT ACTUALLY WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE CHANGED HANDS.

AND IT'S SO INTERESTING BECAUSE IN THE PAST WHEN ALL OF THESE LAWS OF THE VOTING RIGHTS THAT WE AUTHORIZED BROUGHT UP, THEY HAD BROAD SUPPORT FROM BOTH PARTIES AND WE JUST SAW THIS LATEST LAW NAMED FOR JOHN LEWIS THEIR FORMER COLLEAGUE, NO REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR IT.

AND THIS IS -- IN THE PAST ACTUALLY EVERYONE DID SO YOU CAN SEE HOW IT HAS BECOME A POLITICAL.

AS FAR AS THE FILIBUSTER IS CONCERNED, MANY ACTIVISTS AND OTHERS AND SAYING LISTEN, THEY'RE LOOKING AT PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SAYING IF IT WEREN'T FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND MINORITY VOTERS KNEW WOULD NOT BE IN PRESIDENCY AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE THEIR BACK NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES.

THE FILIBUSTER ISN'T A LAW IT'S JUST A TRADITION AND A RULE AND THEY'RE SAYING IF YOU HAVE TO GET RID OF IT TO GET THESE LAWS OUT THERE SO THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR YOU WILL SEE THAT YOU ARE WORKING FOR THEM, GIVE THEM THE VOTE AND MAKE SURE THEIR VOTE IS PROTECTED.

WHY ARE YOU THERE?

SO YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF OF ACTUALLY FIGHTING ON THIS.

AND THIS YEAR'S MARCH ON WASHINGTON 58TH ANNIVERSARY AND I HEARD MLK THE 3RD ON WE WILL BE MARCHING.

THIS ONE IS FOR VOTING RIGHTS.

AND YOU'LL HAVE MANY PEOPLE CONVERGE NOT JUST IN WASHINGTON, BUT ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT THIS IS THE IMPORTANT ISSUE.

AND AS FAR AS FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED, SUPPOSEDLY YOU WANT THEM TO ENTER SOCIETY AS FREE CITIZENS AND FEEL THAT THEY ARE PART OF IT AND THE VOTE IS A REALLY IMPORTANT WAY FOR THEM TO FEEL LIKE AMERICANS.

>> MARY THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE CONNECTION.

STUDENT LOAN DEBT FOR MORE THAN 300,000 DISABLED BORROWERS HAS BEEN CANCELED TO THE TUNE OF 5.8 BILLION DOLLARS.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT ON AUGUST 19TH, AND IT WILL CERTAINLY BE A GREAT RELIEF TO THOSE STUDENTS.

STUDENTS WITH DISABILITIES ALREADY HAD ACCESS TO THIS DEBT FORGIVENESS THROUGH THE TOTAL AND PERMANENT DISABILITY DISCHARGE PROGRAM SO HOW DOES THE ADMINISTRATION'S MOVE IMPROVE UPON THIS JESSICA I WANT TO OPEN WITH YOU DOES THIS MOVE MAKE GOOD ON BIDEN'S GOAL OF TARGETED STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS?

>> I SAY YES, BUT THAT DOESN'T ANSWER THE COMPLETE QUESTION, AS SOMEONE WHO IS A FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT AND STILL HAS THE COLLEGE AND LAW SCHOOL DEBT TO SHOW FOR IT, I'VE BEEN FOLLOWING THIS ISSUE VERY CLOSELY.

SO YES.

THIS NEW CHANGE BASICALLY REMOVES THE BUREAUCRACY.

IT TAKES AWAY SOME OF THE PAPERWORK.

YOU'RE CORRECT IN THAT FOLKS WHO ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THIS DEBT FORGIVENESS, HOWEVER, NOW THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE ABLE TO AUTOMATICALLY RECEIVE THESE BENEFITS WITHOUT HAVING TO APPLY WITHOUT HAVING TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL PAPERWORK.

SO THAT'S THE BIGGEST CHANGE THAT THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE BEFORE ELIGIBLE, DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT ADDITIONAL RED TAPE AND THEY AUTOMATICALLY UPON A DESIGNATION OF TOTAL, HAVING A TOTAL AND PERMANENT DISABILITY, THEY ARE ABLE TO GO HEAD TO RECEIVE THIS FORGIVENESS.

>> AND MARY DO YOU THINK THAT THIS HELPS BIDEN TO MAKE GOOD ON THAT PROMISE OF THE TARGETED STUDENT LOAN, FORGIVENESS AND MORE SPECIFICALLY ABOUT REDUCING THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP.

>> WELL FOLKS ARE SAYING THAT UNLESS YOU GO AFTER THE STUDENT DEBT, THAT YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REDUCE THAT RACIAL WEALTH GAP WE'VE GOT IT IN OTHER AREAS, BUT THIS IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT SO MANY FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENTS AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FOLKS WHO SUFFER FROM DISCRIMINATION EVERY LEVEL SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT GENERATIONAL WEALTH OF THE PARENT WHO CAN JUST WRITE THE CHECK, AND ALSO YOU HAVE DISCRIMINATION IN THE HOUSING MARKET AND UNEMPLOYMENT MARKET THAT THESE FOLKS ARE FACING.

SO YES, YOU HAVE TO GO AFTER STUDENT DEBT IN ORDER TO REDUCE THAT RACIAL WEALTH GAP, AND THIS IS A START BECAUSE STARTING ON THIS, BUT STUDENT LOAN DEBT IS HUGE SO THIS IS JUST GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF IT CUT IN HALF.

>> BLACK COLLEGE STUDENTS HAVE AN AVERAGE OF $52,000 IN STUDENT LOAN DEBT, AND OWE AN AVERAGE OF $25,000, MORE THAN THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS ACCORDING TO DATA FROM THE NATIONAL CENTER FOR EDUCATION STATISTICS AND DAWN, DO YOU THINK THAT THESE RECENT ACTIONS ACTUALLY PUT A DENT IN THE STUDENT LOAN BURDEN FOR BLACK STUDENTS?

>> NO.

AND I ALSO THINK THAT WE NEED FOR BIDEN AND THE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO GO MUCH MUCH FURTHER.

WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF AN ECONOMIC DEPRESSION BECAUSE OF COVID THE LIKES OF WHICH THIS COUNTRY HAS NOT SEEN IN OVER 30 YEARS OR SINCE THE 30'S.

IF WE WANT TO AND ARE SERIOUS ABOUT REALLY STIMULATING THE ECONOMY, REALLY CLOSING THAT WEALTH GAP, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT BLACK AND BROWN FOLKS ARE GIVEN FULL FORGIVENESS A FEDERAL STUDENT LOANS.

AND AGAIN THIS IS A CONVERSATION THAT SHOULD BE WRAPPED UP IN A CONVERSATION AROUND REPARATIONS, AND WITHOUT REPARATIONS, WE DO NOT GET TO ECONOMIC EQUITY.

WE DO NOT GET TO FAIRNESS IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE DO NOT GET TO A PLACE WHERE ALL AMERICANS ARE ABLE TO THRIVE EQUALLY WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION OF REPARATIONS AND FORGIVENESS OF STUDENT LOANS FOR BLACK AND BROWN STUDENTS IS A HUGE PORTION OF THAT REPARATIONS CONVERSATION.

>> YOU FEEL LIKE THE REPARATIONS CONVERSATION IS HAPPENING ALREADY I'M HEARING A LOT MORE ABOUT IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WELL SURE GO AHEAD AND TALK ABOUT IT, IT'S FINE WITH US.

BUT YOU KNOW IT IS IS IT TIME FOR THE ACTIONS AT THIS POINT.

>> I AGREE THAT IT'S ABSOLUTELY TIME FOR THE ACTIONS.

BUT I DO NOT WANT TO POO-POO THE FACT THAT THE CONVERSATION OF REPARATIONS HAS MADE ITS WAY INTO THE MAINSTREAM THOUGHTS OF AMERICA, IT IS IMPORTANT, AND IT IS AN IMPORTANT STEP TOWARDS CREATING THE CONDITIONS, AND CREATING THE POLITICAL WILL FOR THAT WEALTH GAP THAT WAS CREATED BY VERY RACIST AMERICAN POLICIES TO BE CORRECTED AND RECTIFIED.

>> SOME WOULD SAY THAT LISTEN THINGS ARE FAIR THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO BE EQUITABLE, WE CAN'T GET 10 FOR THIS ONE IN 20 FOR THIS BECAUSE OF THE CALCULUS OF DISCRIMINATION AND LOOK AT -- LET'S KIND OF START FROM A CLEAN SLATE.

THERE'S OPPORTUNITY AND ACCESS OUT THERE.

SO YOU KNOW BIDEN HAS HAS SAID YEAH I AGREE THAT STUDENT LOAN DEBT IS A BURDEN.

WHAT'S HIS PROMISE THOUGH?

WHAT CAN WHAT CAN THE BLACK COMMUNITY HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE TO WITH REGARD TO WRITING OFF DEBT FOR FOR ALL STUDENTS VERSUS TARGETED GROUPS OF STUDENTS?

>> I THINK THAT FIRST I WANT TO ADDRESS THIS IDEA THAT IT IS.

UNATTAINABLE OR UNACHIEVABLE TO TO RIGHT THE WRONG OF AMERICAN HISTORY TOWARDS THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

WE DO IT AND WE HAVE SEEN THIS COUNTRY MAKE THOSE KINDS OF JUXTAPOSITIONS MAKE THOSE KINDS OF REPARATIONS IN ALL OTHER SORTS OF HISTORICAL SITUATIONS WHERE THERE WAS RECOGNIZED INEQUITY.

WE CAN DO THIS.

THIS IS A POSSIBILITY, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IT'S REAL, AND THAT SHOULD HAPPEN AND IS LONG OVERDUE.

>> I WANT TO HEAR FROM I'M SORRY THAT BUT I DO WANT TO GIVE A FEW SECONDS TO JESSICA AND MARY TO RESPOND AS WELL.

JESSICA?

>> I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH ATTORNEY BLAGROVE, ESPECIALLY AS TO THIS IS SIMPLY A DROP IN THE BUCKET, THIS TARGETED STUDENT LOAN DEBT FORGIVENESS IS JUST A DROP IN THE BUCKET, WE STILL HAVE A VERY LONG WAY TO GO IN TERMS OF ADDRESSING EQUITY.

IT WAS MENTIONED EARLIER THE REALITY THAT STUDENTS TEND TO HAVE TO LOAN MORE WHEN WE GRADUATE WE ARE IN MORE DEBT.

THIS AFFECTS THINGS LIKE OUR CREDIT SCORE OUR ABILITY TO THEN GO AND PURCHASE A HOME, >> AND THEN GO GET A JOB BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A POOR CREDIT SCORE, YOU CAN'T GET A JOB.

>> THAT'S RIGHT ABSOLUTELY.

>> SO IT CUTS ACROSS.

MARY?

>> I JUST WANT TO SAY THIS IS A CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO HAVE BECAUSE THERE IS SYSTEMIC RACISM AND I WANT TO THOUGH SAY THAT THE REALITY IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH ONE BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN WHETHER IT IS THE GOVERNMENT TRYING TO MAKE GOOD.

ON ALL THE BLACK FARMERS IN DEBT BECAUSE OF RACISM IN THE PAST OR IN HOUSING POLICIES BECAUSE OF RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS AND OTHERS THAT KEPT BLACKS FROM GETTING THAT WEALTH, YOU HAVE SEEN PUSH BACK IN EVERY AREA FROM FOLKS WHO WANT TO SAY AS YOU SAID EARLIER DEBORAH, EVERYTHING IS FINE NOW.

SO FOLKS HAVE TO HAVE THE POLITICAL WILL AND THE ACTIVISM BEHIND IT TO SAY, NO THIS ISN'T RIGHT, AND OUR LEADERS OWE US THIS AS AMERICANS IF YOU WANT TO BE FAIR TODAY, YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE SYSTEMIC RACISM THAT IS MADE THINGS FROM THE STUDENT LOAN DEBT.

TO FARMERS TO HOUSING TO EMPLOYMENT THEY HAVE CREATED THIS GAP.

>> AND BECAUSE IT IMPACTS ALL OF AMERICA.

ALL AMERICANS HAVE TO GET INVOLVED.

MARY C CURTIS, JESSICA HOLMES, DAWN BLAGROVE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

MORE PROGRESS ON BATTLING CORONAVIRUS.

THE FDA HAS OFFICIALLY APPROVED THE PFIZER VACCINE FOR ADULTS, 18 AND OVER AND MODERNA HAS SUBMITTED ITS FILING SO WE COULD SOON HAVE 2 FDA APPROVED COVID-19 VACCINES AND I WANT TO WELCOME BACK FAMILY MEDICINE PRACTITIONER DOCTOR NICOLE SWINE OR DOCS WEINER.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

NOW WITH THIS FDA APPROVAL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF PROVIDING SOME RELIEF TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN VACCINE HAS IT.

>> I'M EXCITED AND NOW OF COURSE THE DOOR'S OPEN FOR EVEN MORE CONVERSATION FOR THOSE WHO WERE KIND OF WAITING FOR THIS TO HAPPEN, YOU KNOW WE WE KNEW WE HAD THE SAFE OPTION WHEN THE FDA DID AS AN EMERGENCY.

BUT IT GAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE SOME PAUSE, WAS IT TOO QUICKLY?

DID THEY SKIP STEPS?

BUT NOW THAT THE FDA HAS GIVEN US OFFICIAL STAMP OF APPROVAL, I HOPE THAT MORE PEOPLE WILL BE OPEN TO GO AHEAD AND GET VACCINATED.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BOOSTERS.

SO IT'S NOW OUT THAT LOOK 8 MONTHS FROM THE TIME THAT YOU GOT THAT SECOND VACCINATION SHOT YOU NEED TO BE GOING AHEAD AND GETTING A BOOSTER, HOW SAFE IS THIS AND DOES IT MATTER WHICH BOOSTER YOU GET IF YOU STARTED WITH PFIZER CAN YOU GO GET THE MODERNA IF YOU STARTED WITH JAY AND JAY CAN YOU GO YOU KNOW HOW DOES THAT WORK.

>> GOOD QUESTION SO WE YOU KNOW AT OUR CLINIC, AT DURHAM FAMILY MEDICINE WERE EXCITEDLY GETTING THE SCHEDULED TOGETHER.

WE HAVE MODERNA.

WE HAVE MODERNA IN PARTICULAR AND PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY BEEN CALLING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHEN SHOULD THEY GET THEMSELVES ON THE SCHEDULE 8 MONTHS FROM THEIR SECOND DOSE OF EITHER MODERNA OR PFIZER.

YOU ALSO ASKED A GOOD QUESTION ABOUT CAN YOU MIX AND MATCH.

>> CAN I HOP OVER TO THE APPROVED ONE?

>> WE DON'T KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW WE DON'T HAVE AN OFFICIAL RECOMMENDATION YET FROM THE JOHNSON AND JOHNSON SIDE OF THINGS, WE'RE STILL WAITING ON THAT.

IT SEEMS AS IF THE THE RECOMMENDATION IS NOT TO MIX THE MRNAs.

SO IF YOU GOT PFIZER SEEMS AS IF IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA TO SWITCH OVER TO MODERNA.

I THINK YOU KNOW THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON THAT BUT FOR NOW WE'RE TRYING TO STICK WITH WHAT YOU GOT ORIGINALLY AND THE BOOSTERS ARE SAFE AS THEY AS THE INITIAL DOSES ARE SO THERE'S NO CHANGE AND RATE OF EFFICACY FOR THE FIRST VARIANT OF CORONAVIRUS AND NO CHANGE IN THE AMOUNT OF SIDE EFFECTS AND IT'S JUST ONE DOSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET 2 DOSES THIS TIME IS JUST ONE AS A BOOSTER.

>> IT SEEMS AS THOUGH PEOPLE ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A BOOSTER SHOT SO SOON AFTER THE INITIAL INOCULATION DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE DELTA VARIANCE POTENCY OR THE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN VACCINATED.

>> CORRECT SO JUST LIKE THE FLU SHOT, YOU KNOW VIRUSES MUTATE, THEY MULTIPLY, THEY CHANGE, TO BECOME NEW SO WITH THE FLU SHOT EVERY YEAR.

THERE'S PROTECT YOU KNOW POTENTIALLY A NEW VARIANT THAT WE'RE FIGHTING AGAINST, SO WE CHANGED THE TYPE OF FLU VIRUS THAT WERE ATTACKING.

THE SAME IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE TRUE FOREVER WITH THE CORONAVIRUS.

IT'S GOING TO CHANGE IS GOING TO LEARN WHAT WE'RE DOING, IT'S GOING TO ADAPT, VIRUS IS VERY SMART.

SO I WAS NOT SURPRISED ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE SOONER RECOMMEND THAT WE NEEDED THE BOOSTER, THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE IN 6 MONTHS REALLY TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, BECAUSE WE WERE THINKING BETWEEN 6 TO 12 SO 8 MONTHS IS KIND OF RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, I'M NOT SURPRISED AND I WON'T BE SURPRISED IF WE WILL HAVE TO CONTINUE DOING ANNUAL UPDATES JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE STAYING ON TOP OF.

YOU KNOW THE TECHNOLOGY THAT THESE VIRUSES WILL ADAPT TO.

>> YES WELL THE DELTA VARIANT HAS REALLY CHANGED SOME THINGS.

I MEAN WE HAVE SEEN THE POPULAR MEMES MY FALL PLANS WITH THIS DELTA VARIANT, AND AT THIS POINT IT'S CAUSING QUITE THE DIVIDE IN FAMILIES AND FRIENDSHIPS, SOME ARE EVEN AFRAID TO TELL THEIR LOVED ONES THAT THEY GOT A SHOT OR DIDN'T GET A SHOT, SO, YOU KNOW PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO OFFEND ANYBODY BUT SAFETY IS PRIORITY NUMBER ONE, SO CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WAYS TO HAVE COVID ETIQUETTE?

HOW DO YOU TALK TO FAMILY MEMBERS OR FRIENDS WHOARE SOCIALIZING WITHOUT MASKS TRAVELING FREELY, NOT VACS, BUT THEY WANT TO COME TO THE COOKOUT.

>> YEAH THAT'S GREAT.

I MEAN YOU TELL ME, I DON'T KNOW I'M GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION TOO.

LITERALLY THIS WEEK JUST STARTED THINKING ABOUT THE HOLIDAYS, WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GO WHO ARE WE GOING TO BE WITH, YOU NEED TO BE VERY SELECTIVE AND YOU WILL HAVE TO HAVE THOSE UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS WITH HOUSEHOLDS THAT MAY HAVE THOUGHT DIFFERENTLY OR DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY PROTOCOL WISE OR MAYBE HAVE NOT GOTTEN VACCINATED IN YOUR HOUSEHOLD HAS BEEN.

SO IN YOU KNOW IN OUR CASE, YOU KNOW THE 2 ADULTS IN THE HOUSE ARE VACCINATED BUT OUR 2 KIDS ARE UNDER 12 SO AS OF RIGHT NOW ARE NOT VACCINATED.

VERY CONCERNED FOR THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR SAFETY.

AND WE DO HAVE SOME FAMILY MEMBER FAMILY MEMBERS THAT HAVE NOT DECIDED TO GET THE VACCINATION YET SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A VERY AWKWARD BUT NECESSARY CONVERSATION ABOUT THANKSGIVING ABOUT CHRISTMAS, YOU KNOW, 'ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO GET VACCINATED?

DO YOU PLAN TO BE?

'IF NOT YOU KNOW AS AS A MEDICAL PROVIDER IN THE FAMILY CAN I 'ANSWER A QUESTION FOR YOU?

IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE 'VACCINATED WILL YOU GET TESTED?

'WILL YOU QUARANTINE PRIOR TO?'

YOU REALLY HAVE TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS I WOULD NOT TAKE ON GATHERINGS WILLY-NILLY.

I WOULD REALLY BE CHOOSY AND SELECTIVE ABOUT WHERE YOU GO AND WHO YOU'RE AROUND.

>> AND WHO'S IN GREATEST JEOPARDY.

IF ANYONE, WHEN YOU'VE GOT AN UNVACCINATED CREW THERE AND A VACCINATED CREW THERE I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WHO HAVE THE VACCINES ARE PROBABLY UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THEY'RE IN DANGER OR THAT THINGS ARE SAFE IF THERE ARE FOLKS AROUND WHO HAVEN'T BEEN VACCSED BUT WHO'S REALLY IN DANGER HERE?

>> MEAN TO BE HONEST WITH YOU EVERYONE, EVERYONE BECAUSE AS AS YOU KNOW THESE VARIANTS HAVE LEARNED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS VACCINE.

THE VACCINES THAT WE HAVE OUT AND SO THE VACCINATIONS TO BE HONEST ARE SLIGHTLY LESS EFFECTIVE FOR THESE NEW VARIANTS AND SO EVEN IF I AS A VACCINATED PERSON COME INTO CONTACT WITH AN UNVACCINATED PERSON OR SOMEONE WHO HAS AN INFECTION FROM THE DELTA VARIANT, I'M STILL AT RISK FOR GETTING INFECTED AND THEN BRINGING IT HOME TO MY UNVACCINATED CHILDREN.

>> SO EVERYONE EVERYONE GOT TO BE CAUTIOUS.

AND EXERCISE THOSE SAFETY PROTOCOLS.

DOCTOR NICOLE SWINER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIMEAND YOUR ADVICE.

THANK YOU.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF TODAY'S GUESTS.

WE INVITE YOU TOENGAGE WITHUS TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE HASHTAG "BLACK ISSUES FORUM".

YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR FULL EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/BLACKISSUESFORUM.

OR LISTEN AT ANY TIME ON APPLE ITUNES, SPOTIFY, OR GOOGLE PODCASTS.

AS WE ROUND OUT A WEEK MARKED BY TRAGEDY WITH THE EXPLOSION IN AFGHANISTAN THAT KILLED AND INJURED U.S. SERVICEMEN AND AFGHAN CIVILIANS, WE WANT TO RECOGNIZE THEIR BRAVERY AND EXPRESS OUR SINCERE CONDOLENSES.

FOR BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT NOEL.

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