GEOFF BENNETT: The bipartisan political organization No Labels is considering launching a third-party unity ticket for the White House next year.

That sparked concern among some Democrats and anti-Trump Republicans that their moderate presidential ticket could serve as a spoiler in a close election by peeling off votes from Joe Biden and put Donald Trump back in the White House.

That's if he's the Republican nominee.

Larry Hogan is the former Republican governor of Maryland.

He is now a national co-chair of No Labels, and he joins us now.

Thank you for being with us.

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN (R-MD): Thank you, Geoff.

GEOFF BENNETT: So you were a popular Republican governor in a blue state.

You were term-limited out of office.

You have said you aren't seeking the Republican presidential nomination in this cycle.

But in your capacity as the national co-chair of No Labels, would you be open to a third-party ticket?

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN: Well, look, I have been involved in No Labels for a number of years, because I happen to believe very strongly in what the organization is all about.

And it's a citizen group that's very bipartisan.

It works on bipartisan, commonsense solutions to problems.

I was involved with the Problem Solvers Caucus of No Labels and helped get the infrastructure bill done.

This new thing that we're all talking about is not something that's fully baked, but it's -- I understand why so many people are talking about it, because almost 70 percent of the people in America do not want Joe Biden or Donald Trump to be president.

And yet it looks as, if the nominations were taking place today, that there's a likelihood that those may be the choices.

And No Labels is talking about the idea next spring of potentially giving voters an additional choice.

And they're talking about the idea of maybe bringing the country together by having a Republican and a Democrat running together on a unity ticket just to put the country first.

GEOFF BENNETT: The polling that you mentioned, it doesn't suggest that the people surveyed want or would support a third-party candidate.

What's the operating assumption that No Labels is using?

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN: Well, actually, two recent polls, one showed 59 percent would consider a third-party candidate, and the other one said 64 percent would if they -- an additional poll said that, if you had on the ballot today Trump, Biden or neither, that neither would be the winner.

So, look, we don't know what it's going to look like next spring.

And there's a whole lot of campaigning between now and then.

My focus is on trying to elect a Republican nominee that's going to be taking the party in a different direction than Donald Trump and that can be a candidate that could win in November.

But just leaving the door open for a group of citizens to say, maybe we should be able to petition to get on the ballot to have an additional choice, that's something that an overwhelming majority of Americans agree with.

GEOFF BENNETT: On the matter of mounting a potential unity ticket, I spoke on this program last week with Dick Gephardt, the former House Democratic leader, who is now leading a bipartisan organization to stop your group, to stop No Labels.

Here's some of what he said.

FMR.

REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D-MO): They say they're forming an insurance policy in the case the candidates are Trump and Biden.

That's precisely the time they should not do this, if their goal is not to reelect Donald Trump.

GEOFF BENNETT: So he says that, in normal times, he'd have no problem with a third-party ticket.

There have been third-party presidential bids for generations, but that these are not normal times this, as he says Donald Trump could not be permitted anywhere near the White House and that a No Labels potential candidacy would siphon off votes for Joe Biden.

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN: Well, I agree that they're not normal times, and that there's never been more of a demand for this potential option ever before in the history of our country.

We have never had a situation where somewhere between 59 and 64 percent of the people say they'd consider a third option.

We have never had a time when 49 percent of all the voters in America were now registered independent, with only 25 being Republican and Democrat.

So I would just disagree with the premise that they can predict now, maybe nine or 10 months early, who the nominees might be, who -- whether No Labels puts together a ticket or not, and whether or not that ticket is going to draw from Joe Biden or from Donald Trump.

But I can tell you that the Democrats are in a full-blown panic because their candidate is in a really weak position.

And they have currently got a third-party candidate that's potentially going to throw the election, and we have got a Green Party candidate that's pulling about 4 or 5 percent of the vote.

And they have got a difficult primary, with 30 percent of the primary voters not voting for Joe Biden.

GEOFF BENNETT: So what would be the No Labels strategy for getting to 270 electoral votes?

Because at a recent No Labels event in New Hampshire, the two most prominent politicians there were Joe Manchin, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, and Jon Huntsman, the former Republican governor of Utah, neither of whom are household names.

And it really speaks to the logistical challenge that your organization would have in building support for these candidates if they were on the ticket.

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN: Yes, well, first of all, that's a big.

If and I'm not sure that either one of them would be on a ticket, and I'm not sure if there's going to be a ticket.

But No Labels wasn't created for this purpose.

No Labels has been around for 12 years.

And I can tell you that there's not a single person in the No Labels organization that I know of that is trying to hand the presidency back to Donald Trump.

I have been one of the strongest critics in the Republican Party.

My co-chair, Joe Lieberman, has been involved in organ organization for a long time.

Right now, I think it's just a lot of kind of negative rhetoric coming out of Democratic operatives who are trying to stifle potential involvement from citizens.

GEOFF BENNETT: We are awaiting a potential second special counsel indictment regarding Donald Trump's role in the lead-up to January 6.

He faces as many as six criminal and civil trials in this election cycle.

And it seems that, as Donald Trump's legal troubles expand, so too does his base of support.

What accounts for that, as you see it?

And do you see that changing at all?

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN: Well, I sure hope so.

I have been trying to do my part to steer the party away from Donald Trump.

I think it would be a terrible mistake for the Republican Party to nominate Donald Trump, and I think it'd be terrible for the country for Donald Trump to be elected president again.

But, look, it's -- the problem we have right now, about 50 percent of the likely Republican primary voters do not want Donald Trump, but they have got 11 choices of who else they might support.

And many of them are struggling to get attention because all of our focus is on the Trump legal problems.

And I think we have got to find a way to narrow that field down, decide who the strongest candidates are, and then we have got to start giving them more attention.

But with the current indictments and potential future indictments coming out, it's going to continue to be the thing that takes all of the oxygen out of the room.

And, unfortunately, that's hurting the Republican primary challengers.

And if not helping Trump, it certainly isn't hurting him.

In a general election, I think it hurts him terribly.

It makes him a candidate that is unqualified, should be disqualified from being president.

And I think it makes it impossible for him to win a general election.

But this is kind of a dream date scenario with the first case coming up in May, which is long after we're going to have selected a nominee.

So it would be bad for the Republican challengers and probably good for the Democrats in the general election.

GEOFF BENNETT: Former Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, thanks for being with us tonight.

We appreciate it.

FMR.

GOV.

LARRY HOGAN: Thank you, Geoff.