- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, before the world heard the famous "I Have a Dream" speech on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, those words were spoken right here in North Carolina.

From history to the present, we're asking what it means to remember and how the next generation is carrying the dream forward.

Coming up next, stay with us.

- Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBSNC.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm your host, Kenia Thompson.

Well, as we approach the Martin Luther King Jr.

holiday, we often hear now familiar words in oratories, soundbites, and quotes.

But this week, we're centering something many people don't know, North Carolina's connection to the very first delivery of what would become one of the most powerful speeches in American history.

Before the world heard "I Have a Dream" on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, Dr.

King delivered an early version right here in North Carolina, in Rocky Mount.

Later on in the show, we'll talk about how the next generation is carrying Dr.

King's legacy forward through a powerful MLK Youth Oratory contest.

But first, we're joined by the president of the Opportunities Industrialization Center of Rocky Mount and Rocky Mount City Council representative, Reuben Blackwell.

He's here to help us understand the historical significance that famous "I Have a Dream" moment and why it still matters.

Welcome back to the show, 'cause this is not your first forte.

- Well, it's not, but it's so good to see you and be with you.

- Yes.

- And thank you so much for selecting this topic and for inviting me.

- Well, of course it's timely and it's important, I think, more so than ever, given the current situation of a lot of things that were going on today.

- For sure.

- When we think about the "I Have a Dream" speech, right, we think about the Lincoln Memorial, we think about what we see.

- Right.

- But there was a connection to North Carolina with MLK's speech, with that delivery.

Tell us about it and what's important.

- Well, there was a connection with humanity to humanity.

We sometimes don't think that Dr.

King, he's an icon, he's a legend, he was a global prophet that changed the world, but he was also a person.

And he had personal relationships.

He had classmates in Rocky Mount, the Warner family, the Stokes family, the Dudley family.

And so his friends were seeing him rise in prominence and had an opportunity to be with him at Morehouse.

He had a fraternity brother here in Rocky Mount that was with him in Morehouse.

And they wanted this message to come to Rocky Mount because in the South, I don't know if we understand fully all that's taking place, but the South, the southern part of the United States of America was the entire focus and the inheritor of the transatlantic slave trade.

And for hundreds of years before Dr.

King ever came on the scene, the legacy of pain, suffering, that also equated to financial benefit for a few people, translated into an opportunity for us to change who deserves dignity, who deserves freedom, who deserves wealth, who deserves respect.

And that message was needed then, and it seems that it's needed again today.

- It does seem that way.

So when he came here to Rocky Mount, who did he stay with and how did they transport him?

And how did they, like, where did he deliver this message?

- Well, you know, he was, for all of his power and for all of his tremendous messaging that he had, people hated him, they loathed him, and people wanted to kill him.

So there were codes, there were messaging, because phones were being tapped, people were being watched.

When the letters were being written, and there was no spy technology then that could open up a letter and then seal it back up and then you not know it's read, so I guess letters weren't touched at that point.

But he was picked up at the airport by Stokes Funeral Home, and they picked him up in a hearse.

- Which airport?

- Raleigh-Durham.

- Really, RDU?- - Yeah, yeah.

- Wow.

- And so they picked him up and transported him to Rocky Mount in a hearse.

And that was, you know, what you had to do when cops didn't pull over hearses.

I guess they didn't want to get creeped out or something, I don't know.

- Yeah.

- But that was the safer way of travel.

- Wow.

- One of my predecessors, the powerful and late Helen Gay, who was also a city council member, told me she was a caterer, and she catered his meal at Reverend Dudley's house.

And Reverend Dudley was the pastor of Mount Zion First Baptist Church, which was the first black Baptist church in Rocky Mount, formed, you know, right after slavery.

- Wow.

- And Reverend Dudley was a friend of his.

In fact, the letter that he penned, he called him affectionately by his name, Mike.

- Wow.

- You know, and he said, "Mike, we need you to come to Rocky Mount "to deliver this message."

- That's amazing.

- So he had dinner with friends in Reverend Dudley's house, and I'm gonna tell you, the meal is what we need to recognize.

- What was the meal?

- The meal, Miss Gay told me herself.

She was a caterer of caterers.

She said he had steak, a baked potato, and a fresh green salad.

- All right, that sounds like my kind of meal.

- That's right, I'm just, so, Martin Luther King, Junior Day, holiday, we need to, everybody-- - - That's what we need to eat.

- Set aside your veganism.

- Yes.

(laughing) And that's what needs to be on the table.

I love that.

- That's on the table.

- So, you know, I spent most of my elementary school, middle school, high school, historical education, North Carolina history, I never learned that.

- Yeah.

- Why?

- Well, our histories are not always significant to everyone else.

When integration occurred, and I was a child when it happened, but I remember being in segregated systems, and then in the, and I was part of the class and integrated as a child.

- Yeah.

- And those things that were valuable to us in our communities as black people, when we integrated, and integration always meant that we left our areas, our homes, our schools, and we went over to white schools, and that meant you only brought what you had.

- Mm-hmm.

- What you can't carry in a book bag, you leave it at home.

- You leave it at home, yeah.

- So awards were trashed, our histories were trashed, our stories were forgotten if they were not told, and someone had the, you know, the presence of mind to write it down.

- Right, to capture.

- And that's what has taken place in Rocky Mount.

- Yeah, well, I'm so grateful that you're here to share, right, and to share this story with our viewers.

Where was the speech delivered, and is there audio of it?

- Yes, there is an audio of it.

The speech was delivered at the then Booker T. Washington High School in Rocky Mount, and Rocky Mount held a significance because it was part of a whistle-stop tour that Booker T. Washington took right after slavery throughout the South, convincing former slave owners to invest in education, that education was a good thing for everyone, and so Rocky Mount had a respect and a reverence for Booker T. and for his message, and so as many other cities throughout the country, we named the high school, or they named the high school Booker T. Washington, and so he was supposed to speak, Dr.

King, at that auditorium, but so many people showed up, black as well as white people, so there's always somebody who's not with that oppression, and they showed up, the auditorium was too small, so they moved him to the gymnasium, and so he made his first speech November 27, 1962, at that location, and it was something about Rocky Mount in the East that let him visualize and then articulate those words, Rocky Mount, I have a dream, I have a dream.

- And so where does the audio live?

- The audio lives in all kinds of places, but there is an audio and a video.

Dr.

Jason Miller has unearthed this, he's a distinguished professor of history at North Carolina State University, and he's researched and founded at the library at Braswell Memorial Library in Rocky Mount, and now he's pulled this thing out, and I don't know where it is, you've got to figure that out.

- Yeah, I was gonna say-- - - 'Cause I don't know where all that, I can go online, there's an online location.

- Yeah, I was gonna say, it's a good transition, 'cause while we didn't get our hands on that video clip, there is one that I wanna share before we bring on our next guest.

So as we reflect on Dr.

King's connection to North Carolina and the early shaping of his dream, it's important to remember that his words didn't just stop at hope, they also demanded action.

Just one year after speaking in Rocky Mount, Dr.

King stood in Birmingham, Alabama, and addressed a question that many are still asking today.

How long must justice be delayed?

Here's Dr.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

answering that question in a speech delivered on March 25th, 1965, at the end of the Selma to Montgomery Voting Rights March.

[cheers and applause] - Today I want to tell the city of Selma-- - Tell them, doctor.

- Today I want to say to the state of Alabama-- - Yes, sir.

- Today I want to say to the people of America and the nations of the world that we are not about to turn around.

We are on the move now.

Yes, we are on the move, and no wave of racism can stop us.

The burning of our churches will not deter us.

The bombing of our homes will not dissuade us.

The beating and killing of our clergymen and young people will not divert us.

The wanton release of their known murderers will not discourage us.

We are on the move now.

Like an idea whose time has come, not even the marching of mighty armies can haunt us.

We are moving to the land of freedom.

I know you're asking today, "How long will it take?"

Somebody's asking, "How long will prejudice blind the visions of men?"

I come to say to you this afternoon, however difficult the moment, however frustrating the hour, it will not be long because truth crushed to earth will rise again.

How long?

Not long.

Because no lie can live forever.

How long?

Not long.

Because you shall reap what you sow.

How long?

Not long.

Truth forever on the scaffold, wrong forever on the throne.

Yet that scaffold sways the future.

Behind the dim unknown standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.

How long?

Not long.

Because the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.

How long?

Not long.

Because mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.

- Understanding North Carolina's connection to Dr.

King's first delivery of the "I Have a Dream" speech reminds us that this legacy didn't end in 1963.

It continues every time someone stands up, speaks truth, and believes that their voice matters.

And today that belief is being passed directly to our youth.

Joining the discussion is our next guest, Bishop Dr.

George B. Jackson.

He's the founder of the Martin Luther King Social Action Committee in Thomasville, North Carolina, and he's here to talk about celebratory events surrounding the MLK holiday and the importance of keeping his dream alive.

Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Before we talk about the wonderful events, how long?

Not long.

So many parallels in where we are today.

What are your thoughts?

The struggle for dignity, equality, and the advancement of our people continues because our nation was founded upon principles that were false and principles that were not inclusive of all people.

And so the parallels drawn from Dr.

King's speech and asking how long, not long, have been unanswered because America has not come to the reality that she's founded upon false principles.

And so we have the moral obligation to continue to push America towards realizing the content of its character, realizing the value of all people, and that we are all endowed with certain inalienable rights -- life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

So we're going to continue to struggle as a nation to become one nation under God.

You know, Reuben, before coming on set, we were watching it back there, and the director turns around and said she was getting chills, and in that moment, I was already on the verge of tears watching that clip back.

And it just made me feel like, why?

Why are we here?

Why are we pushing?

What is the point of trying if all these years later we're still here?

What would you say to someone who feels like that?

Well, hate is so powerful, and hate drives people to suppress their humanity and the part of them that's eternal.

The only thing that can fix that is an overwhelming well of faith that's expressed in love.

And Dr.

King recognized, and I read the speech as opposed to just listen to it, and when you're reading the words, and he said, you know, you've got to love people beyond their hatred.

And that is so hard for me to digest, and I'll be honest.

It's hard for me to digest when I know the sit-ins, the prayer-ins, the walking, the marching, the advocacy, watching dogs eat children, hoses push down teenagers, violence that begets, and now we see another surge of this thing, but what's going to fix it?

We've got to convince ourselves that our humanity is greater than inhumanity, and love is stronger than hate.

And if we don't do it, we will be annihilated.

And what people don't recognize, and oppressors never recognize this until it's too late, every unjust system crumbles.

Bishop, I want to bring you back in.

We saw many back then come together, die, fight, persevere through the things they experienced.

How do we take and channel that same energy today, knowing that things have changed and have advanced, but what is the approach, and perhaps some of the events you've got going on as part of that?

Well, I think that we have evolved to be so individually focused that we have lost our community because we're so caught up in personal glory, personal recognition, personal fame, that we've forgotten our community.

Now, if there's ever been a community of people who have learned to get by with the least, it's African Americans.

And so we have to recreate that community.

We have to bring people back to the table, back to the church, back to the schools and our HBCUs.

We have been splintered by progress.

We've been splintered by advancements in technology, and we have lost community.

But Martin King's dream was for a beloved community, not a place of sentimental love, but a place of unity, peace, and understanding.

And so our focus within the Martin Luther King Social Action Committee has been to use Dr.

King's oratory prowess and entice young people to start communicating with words, communicating with manuscripts, with the written document.

And so for the last 26 years, we have hosted an oratorical contest that gives young people, Black, White, Latino, Asian, an opportunity to use their voices to continue adding the foundation of the beloved community, continue putting bricks and stones upon this community by advocating through oratorical opportunities that I didn't have in high school.

When I was coming up in the '70s, they weren't interested in listening to a Black kid talk about what was important to them.

- I was going to ask, I've never been to one.

- Oh, wonderful.

Tell me what it's like, 'cause I'm a public speaking teacher, so it seems like some of you right up my alley.

- Please come visit.

- I will definitely come visit.

- Come soon.

The MLK Oratorical Contest offers seniors in high school an opportunity to receive scholarships and awards.

We've awarded $282,000 in scholarships over the past 20 years, and we've had 260-plus kids participate from North Carolina, South Carolina, and Virginia.

There's a four-minute oration on a theme that's developed by our committee, and the students have an opportunity to use that theme, highlight Dr.

King's quotes, and share their vision for the community.

- Wow, that sounds powerful.

If Dr.

King, were you going to say something else before?

- I'm just going to say the power of communication and the power of community is the only way we're going to survive.

And I'm just going to say this, you know, that, you know, black people cannot afford to deal with this individualistic, "I made it."

No, you didn't make it.

You might have some money, but money doesn't make you.

The only thing that saves us is community.

And that's what I believe Dr.

King-- that's why he had to go everywhere and remind us that slavery and oppression might have disconnected us, but we have the power to reconnect ourselves, and in our reconnection, we can help save the earth.

- Yeah, yeah.

- But it's about community.

- It is community.

- And it's about the common thread of pursuit and that common thread of excellence that intertwines all of us, and it's so important that we continue to have-- this oratorical contest brings the community together from all over our region to hear these young people express their concerns about our future, our community.

- J. Cole-- - Real quick, yeah.

- I'm sorry, real quick.

- No, go ahead.

- J. Cole has this song, it says, "Be free."

Everybody wants to hate us, but I want to break these chains.

We want to be free.

Nipsey Hussle, same thing.

And in California, had these chances to give kids, to express themselves.

We got to let them get it out.

- Yeah, and that's a great way to do so.

When we think about MLK Holiday, the day, right?

His birthday is January 15th, I believe.

We observe it on the third Monday of January.

Some people just see it as a day off.

Some people just see it for what it is, but don't, you know, live 364 days of it.

What does it look like to live 364 days of it?

- It looks like being proud of your culture.

It looks like being aware of your surroundings.

It looks like being concerned about your neighbor and using your skills, your gifts, your powers to enhance those around you and to strengthen-- change the world.

But you can strengthen your neighborhood.

You can strengthen your community.

You can make the people in your local dwelling aware that you care and that you're going to be there even through the crisis that we're experiencing in our nation now.

We have to build a beloved community.

- Yeah.

So this weekend is MLK weekend, and so the oratory contest will be happening, or is it multiple contests that are happening?

- The oratorical contest is on Saturday.

- Okay, all right.

- Saturday evening.

It's a formal event.

- Is that open to the public?

- It's open to the public.

- And this is in Thomasville, North Carolina?

- Thomasville, North Carolina.

Now, it's not free.

- Okay.

- Because it is a scholarship program.

- That's okay.

It is a scholarship program, so where is it held?

- It's about $20, and it will be at Bethel Global United Methodist Church, and we will have a reception at 5, and the contest begins at 6 p.m.

We have 12 students from five area high schools, and they will be competing this year for $25,000 in scholarship money.

- Wow, that's amazing.

That's amazing.

Have you been to one of the contests?

- Well, we have our own oratorical.

- You have your own.

Tell me.

- In Rocky Mount, we have every year, attached to our King Celebration Program, we have a breakfast on Mondays, this Monday, King Monday, at 7.30 a.m.

at the Rocky Mount Event Center, which is right downtown Rocky Mount in Edgecombe County, which is important.

That's the old area that used to be the Black Business District in Rocky Mount, and so there we host at our event center the MLK Breakfast.

In fact, your CEO, David Crabtree, is the keynote speaker.

- Oh, wonderful.

- And at that event, our winners of our oratorical contest will offer their speeches, and I think we do elementary, middle school, and high school.

- Wonderful.

- And we don't offer $25,000.

(laughing) - That's all right.

We'll work our way up to that, right?

A couple minutes left, maybe less than two minutes at this point, but what hope does it give you to hear the next generation when they speak the words that they do?

- It gives me hope that Dr.

King's legacy will continue.

It's not just about the dream.

It's about the foundation that he laid for greatness in our people, and to continue to hear young people speak, it gives me hope that Dr.

King's legacy won't die with the next generation.

- Yeah, what about you?

- I'm excited because they're motivated to start up their own businesses.

- Yes.

- They're taking care of their health better.

They're learning how to take care of their elders.

They're learning to critically think and not just see and read and process what's given, and while TikTok might elevate the fights and the pettiness of the world, most of our kids are engaged in thought and intellectual discussion and figuring out how to fix the mistakes of the past, and I'm not so sure that they're going to take the same journey that King took, so I'm excited to see what our future looks like.

- And I'm excited too.

Reuben Blackwell, Bishop Jackson, thank you both so much, and I hope this weekend is a beautiful weekend of speeches and words well-deserved to be spoken.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- And I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS Video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) ♪ ♪ - Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBSNC.