- Here we are once again, sitting at the table here at High Point University, eight North Carolinians.

I've described this to some people as if you took a birthday cake and sliced it down the middle, you would see different layers.

And I think we have several layers representative of North Carolina here.

Not with every voice, but with many voices to talk about issues, to talk about the country, talk about the state, talk about things that are important to us, and how we better learn to listen to each other.

So I wanna begin this segment with asking with your perspective, different places in life, wherever you are, how you respond to the comments some people make, our best days are behind us.

- That's good question.

Our best days.

I think it depends of each person's perspective and experiences.

And if, when you're talking about that is as a family, as a country, as a group of people.

So, but if you ask me, I'm not sure about that because.

- Or maybe our best days are yet to come.

- Exactly.

And I think also you need to be aware of the time you are right now, try to be aware of what is happening.

Take the best of what is happening, be optimistic and see how you can improve that.

Or if you are happy with the place you are at.

So I think it depends of who you ask.

Where and about what.

- Catherine, the best days behind us, are they still to come?

- I'm more of, they're still to come.

I mean, I know that there's a lot of hindsight of sort of romanticization of the past and, oh, things were so much better back X, Y, or Z.

And maybe there were things that were better in the past.

But I think we're continuing to progress and evolve as a society, as individuals.

So I'm optimistic.

- Jake, what do you think?

- Oh, kinda like Catherine.

Like it's certain things from the past.

I think we're better off then without all the technology that is around just, it's just a white noise constantly.

Like you can't escape it unless you realize it and you step out of that, like step away from Facebook, cell phones, get out somewhere where you can like really breathe.

I think we can make it better.

I think we can break the cycle of hard times.

Make strong man, make easy times.

Make weak man, weak man, make hard times.

We're we're somewhere in there where could break the cycle.

Where like, we don't make hard times, but how, how we approach it, how we interact with each other to make that, - Is that what would break it?

Is it the interaction with each other?

- I think how we treat each other, how we perceive each other 'cause we were talking about before when I walked in for dinner late and what people thought who I was when I walked in and completely flipped the script on them.

So like, just perceiving somebody by face value, looking at a book's cover and never like step it out to say, hey, let's talk.

- Can I ask you a question on that one?

Was that you just said about the cover and is the book the same as the cover describes about you?

- Say it one more time.

- You know, you just mentioned that you look at the cover, but would the book describe the same as what the cover says about you?

Because yes, we may have had, because of the way you presented maybe a little hesitation, but you turned out to be just like in normal guy.

But would that be the way to describe you in the open beyond this table?

- Yeah, when I go out, like, you know, you look at things, I'm aware of certain things.

Lee's seen the things that I've like just instantly picked up on.

But it wasn't a racial, it wasn't a class thing.

It was just being in the fire service for so long now, like you're looking at a crowd and you're like, hold up a second.

Like it's 90 degrees out here and that guy's got a hoodie on.

And he is got the hood up.

He's up to something.

- Kinda like surveying you're scene.

- Yeah.

- Take it all in.

Just reading the land real quick and having to do that with calls, like stepping, 'cause we're stepping into unknown environments and that's medical calls.

So it could be like the way I step into a low income housing area, like I'm very aware of my surroundings just as much.

If I step into the higher end part of town and seeing a gun in the corner or a knife laying on the nightstand.

Like it's the same situation.

It's just in a bigger room.

- Yas, what about your cover on your book?

- My cover itself is the book I think, if somebody were to read the cover, you read me.

And other than that, it's some of the things that I generally do and God makes the person, but the experience makes the personality.

So just like I mentioned to you how I had to teach myself away from the stereotypes because we didn't come with this back home, say in India, everybody looked Indian.

There was no difference.

Of course we have several languages, several cultures, but as a people we were all, you know, brownies for that matter.

But coming here, there were those distinctions.

So I had to break one after the other to come to an understanding, because obviously when I talked to my children, they say they are born here.

So they don't even know where I came from to that extent.

But they have lived here and they're Americans and they know the culture and so forth here.

- Since you've been born or since let's say a rebirth of living in this country, becoming an American citizen, do you find this better or worse off?

- From the time I came, I think it has become, going back to, yeah, it has become a little bit worse because in the past I thought people were more content with whatever they had.

They were content.

Now they have more, less contentment.

So I literally went through all the stages of what a normal immigrant would come, $5 an hour working in a factory.

And I saw people were happy with whatever they took from that factory, whatever they could make.

But this machinery came in and made some of the most precious dye makers in the United States redundant because the owner wanted to manufacture more.

We could have still shaved the same from the same plate and be still happy.

But because one person wanted to immediately get the shortcut to fortune, then rest of the entire industry got crumbled because it used to be a process employing many of the smaller scale industries, that has gone.

So based on that, and then we then they said, well, we give this employee with insurance and all that, it comes to this much, let's move it to Mexico.

So the company moved to Mexico because what they would pay us for a day, they could get away with a week without insurance.

So that's how, so the corporate greed has taken over, I think, and the common person is being hurt at that time, with the onset of the social media, that's a major distraction.

We have not even touched on what now even those who created it are calling it very harmful.

The AI, not harmful to the extent, but they do not themselves know where it's going to take us.

Because now when you approach the AI, it almost feels like you're talking to God.

So the answer is coming from the creator, no, it is man who created it, but that creation has that certain abilities that is satisfying your need.

So you are making it to be something very profound, even though it's not because I asked the question to them, does this particular aspect of AI, does it have consciousness?

I said, no, that's one thing we can't it.

So it means that there is no emotional intelligence in it.

It has artificial intelligence.

But just like I described to you, you ask the direction from Google, Google will throw something on you.

You'll say, okay, whether you say thank you or not, it doesn't care.

But for a human being, when you show a direction, you just turn around and walk away.

They will say, what's wrong with this guy?

So now we are moving towards that, we need to be personal with people.

- Awesome.

- So on your list of three things, five things that better or worse since you've been born, what would you say, Ashley?

- Yes, I have a long list of things.

- [Speaker] Oh wow, a thesis, an essay.

- Yeah, I mean, I think about the time I was born, mine is 1982.

But I think about the time whenever I was born and to where I'm at today and so much progress that has happened for, and I'm just looking at the lens of native people, of people, growing up, we weren't told a lot about our tribal history.

We weren't taught our language culturally.

We knew some things, right?

And taken a long time, right, for us to build that back.

So growing up, what we've been able to do, and at least the past five years is revitalize our language back, to dive deep into history and research and John Lawson's recovery in the state and being able to build back some of that language.

We've been able to build back cultural pieces that were taken, artifacts that are being uncovered today that were are thousands of years old and taking that and being able to learn from it so we can build that back.

And so instead of for my parents, right, me condemning them right, for not teaching me things that they did not know because they grew up in a time whenever it wasn't good to be a native person in this state or in the country really.

And so the trauma that they ensued because they didn't wanna pass that to myself or to my generation, we are now able to relearn that back and dive deeper into it and be able to gift that back to our parents.

Something that that was never taught to them.

And so I think that it's a form of healing that's occurred and that's what I've seen in my generation take place.

- Deisha, as you look back over basically the same period of time, what things do you see are worse?

What are better?

- Worse, I would say, well, let's start with better.

I have a three superficial-ish type of betters, but I think better technology, appliances and everything.

I think, you know, we've made life easier by the technology that has been put in place.

Televisions and things like that.

Social media, the ability to connect with people in India, you know, like I have a WhatsApp and then I have got my Facebook and I've got my Twitter and you know, or sorry X but like you can connect with people in a second and people when I was born in 83, year after you, it wasn't even fathomable to be able to look on a cell phone and click on something, better fashion.

[people laughing] The eighties were special.

So aside from that, I think on the same note there is negative in social media.

We've got a lot of disconnected connected people.

When there was a pastor in Oklahoma who had said something to the effect of, you've got your news reels and you could see somebody's death announcement right after you celebrate someone's birthday.

And that does something to your mind, you know, it's desensitizing you're to people and you're very connected person.

Somebody that wants to dive in and get to the meat and potatoes of emotionality.

And I don't even know if that's a word, but it's just, it's something that has made us a little bit more desensitized, pornography at a click of a button.

We were talking earlier about sexuality and stuff like that.

I do not approve of immoral behavior, in the Bible it says, let there be no sexual immorality among you, but there is pornography all over the place and you can access it by Google search and Photoshop technology.

You can be put into a video, you can be put into a photo and it might not even be you.

There was a person that was deep faked, I think and in a sexual way and she wasn't a public figure.

And so, I mean, there are things that should be corrected or may not be able to be corrected or regulated.

But I think that kind of sums up what I was able to think of.

- Well, Lee, tell me about your list and your idea.

Are the best days behind us or are you more hopeful?

- I'm gonna start with the best days question.

I'm gonna say the best days are ahead of us.

If they were behind us, I wouldn't be sitting at this table with you.

First of all, I wouldn't be allowed to be here if we go back far enough, I say as long as we keep pushing the envelope towards acceptance, towards equality, towards inclusivity, eventually we will get there or die trying.

I'm not sure which, but I'm pretty sure it's far, far ahead of us.

But it's not right now.

We can't stop now.

We haven't come this far to come this far.

So the status quo isn't the answer.

And then my three positive changes, you know, we're moving towards banking, finance, technology.

I mean it makes me sad because it makes my negative, the loss of American jobs with the loss of textiles and stuff.

Higher ed in North Carolina is interesting because I went to science and math, you know, school started by Terry Sanford and all of them, Jim Hunt, all of those folks, dorms are named after half those folks.

But, is the education level in North Carolina equivalent across the board?

I was very privileged by having that chance.

And I recognized that and you know, when I was younger I'm like, why do I have to do this?

And this sucks, you know, and looking back on it, I mean, number one, it's where I met my wife.

Number two, not everybody has that privilege to get that level of education in this state.

I mean that is the top high school in the nation right now.

So, how do we make that fair for everybody across the board, which goes back to your question about are the best days behind us?

And that's why I say it's not, and you know, my weirdest positive change one is the code switching that I have to do between certain people.

Like there's some people, and we all do it.

You all do it.

Like you don't roll up on your boss like, a yo what's up?

Unless you're real cool with your boss.

I mean some people really are, but most of you do not.

You know, but there's a certain level of code switching that is either not expected from me or definitely expected from me.

- Say more about code switching.

- It's literally like how you interact with other people.

Like I'm sure I interacted with you more formally when I first met you than I do at this moment right now.

I'm sure I interacted with all of you more formally on Friday than now because we've gotten to know each other a little bit.

We've talked, we know how each other interacts.

If I'm at work, especially being an academic, there are some things you don't expect to come outta my mouth at work because it would be not the thing that you would see from a person in my positionality.

So it's definitely like I talk to my friends so totally different than I talk at work.

- So does the code, yes, please.

- Can I add a little bit more to the code switching?

Whenever I was, I grew up in a rural community, whenever I went to Germany, my first duty station, I worked with a guy who was from Chicago and he told me, he said, if you don't start speaking English, I'm gonna ask for a transfer.

I really enjoyed working with him and I worked really hard to lose my southern accent because I also saw that people, they would look at not what I was saying but how I was saying it.

So I may be either explaining something that's highly technical and at the end of it they'll say, say that one word again?

I'm like, didn't you just hear what I just said?

They were listening.

But my accent was getting in the way for them to be able to move forward in conversation and probably also like in my career.

And so I left from there and I moved to Seattle and I remember one of my bosses told me, if anyone calls me with a country accent, I hang up.

'Cause my immediate response is they must be trying to get something from me.

They think about like the used car salesman, right?

But whenever you look at, to the point of not about media, but like even how they commercialize and talk about people from the south, we may not see it here, but when you leave here, the rest of the country joke, right?

They got jokes about country accents, right?

And it builds, yeah.

It builds that stereotype and reinforces it.

I mean we see that with indigenous people, like some of the characters and things, and that's how people think.

Like, oh, everyone should have like long black hair and high cheekbones and dark eyes, right?

It's the same thing with people with country accents, like, or people from the south, when I would come visit, like did you could bring, you got your passport to go back to the south or you just, you know, so I mean the dynamic outside the south is that used car salesman, like trying to get something over somebody and uneducated.

But code switching helps.

- Kind of bridge that gap.

- And bridge it.

But like to your point, when I get on the phone, folks come around, they're like, who are you now?

- Or like if I'm at work and I'm doing something super technical because I do all the high end imaging, I have to sound like an educated, non southern white person.

If I don't present myself that way because I'm already got, I'm already behind the power curve, big black girl with a bunch of ink, you know, they're already not necessarily gonna listen to me.

So I have to sound like I know exactly what I'm talking about, which I do.

But it also means I have to be three times as good or 10 times as good depending on the situation.

- But does code switching lessen our authenticity?

- It depends, I'm the same person if I talk to you about my technical work or if I'm just, you know, hanging out.

- But if you're on the phone and you want someone to think that you're not who you are.

- I try not to do that because okay, this has happened.

Okay, this is a true story.

So my nickname is Lee, my full name is given something else and my email is not alias, but they paid attention to how I signed it as Lee.

So this person, new faculty member and I worked on the faculty startup packages.

So when they order like new instruments, new equipment and it gets there before they arrive on campus, I'm the one that checks it in, make sure it works, everything.

And so we get this new faculty member and I've been communicating with this person via email, via phone for about four, six months.

And the department head introduces the faculty member to me and the faculty member's, like, excuse me, who?

She had no idea I was a black woman.

If you look my name, you might think I'm a corn fed white guy.

And that's what she thought.

Like she was like, wait, you cannot be who I've been talking to this entire time.

And I'm like, pretty sure it was me.

- I know you had a response to that.

- No, I was thinking about the question you made because now with all this changing in worrying and being politically correct, when I am representing our organization and I have to give a speech, I really have to go through different people to look at it.

So I don't offend somebody or I don't say a word that is not representing, or if I have to say Latinx or Hispanic or Latina.

So it becomes difficult because then I can't really speak from my heart because probably I'm going to mess it up.

So I have to write it and I really have to read it.

And also if it is in English, it's more difficult because it's not my first language.

It becomes, sometimes I feel I can't be myself.

- Are we trying to be too sensitive?

- No, I'm coming from a place that I think there's an art to, and I think it's kind of fun to be able to say, okay, well how well can you articulate in this environment?

And like, I make it a fun thing.

'Cause like in New Jersey, I might slip.

If I'm having a drink, I might say awesome or coffee and gosh, that's looked down upon in the south too.

So I mean like we have our things.

It's a cultural thing, Newscasters do it all the time.

You had Peter Jennings and you had like, and and I learned it in theater class one time where there was a speech that you used on American news programming, a certain style and you were taught it and you were taught to articulate a certain way.

And then you go home and you can talk however you want, you know?

And I think that it's social code, it's been done for centuries.

You don't go to a ball gown and behave the same way you would go to maybe a movie theater or a restaurant.

- [Speaker 2] But what drives a social code?

What do you think drives?

- We're all trying to, if you look at it at kids in a classroom, they're all trying to figure each other out.

And I always think that there's something, a lot of them are very self-conscious and like, am I doing things this way or am I supposed to do it this way?

Or if I say this, how are they gonna react?

But the kid right next to them is doing exactly the same thing.

- Kids in a classroom, it's peer pressure.

And that's totally different from adults in the workplace versus adults in your free time.

- Is it really?

- I think so.

Unless you hang out with the people that you work with all the time when you're off work.

And that's a whole nother story.

- I think that leads back to social standards.

You know, what are the standards and are you trying to live up to those?

When I was growing up, my mother said, you know that we're going to church now, are you gonna wear that?

And I'm like, well, what's wrong with it?

And she said that there were standards, the way you look, the way you talk, the way you dress.

And because of that, yes there are stereotypes that people automatically think something of you.

And they group thought processes into that.

And you know, the example I was mentioning when Ashley was talking is I went to go visit a friend in New York.

Here I am a little country bumpkin.

And I had my little designer overalls and my tennis shoes 'cause we knew we were gonna walk a lot.

And here we're on the ferry going over to see the Statue of Liberty.

And I'm talking to her and doing everything that I normally would do.

And one lady comes over to me and she touches me, says, honey, would you say that again?

And of course she's saying it in her New York term.

I said, what did I say?

And she goes, no, I just wanna hear you.

I said, why is that?

She goes, 'cause you're not from here.

And you know, there's certain standards.

And my friend of course who had already come and we grew up together, but she lived up there.

She gave me a lesson when I got back to the apartment, she goes, nope, you can't wear that.

No, you can't wear that because there's certain standards in certain cultures all around the world.

- Peter, I wanna go back to your point though, saying, in your community that you struggled at times with, do I say Hispanic?

Do I say Latinx, I say Latina.

That's where I'm coming with the question, have we become too sensitive that we're so afraid that we're going to say the wrong thing even though we have really wonderful intentions that we end up pulling back and you do lose your heart and what you're saying, and does that lead to a further divide?

- Yeah, and you know, I still think that you should be yourself.

Yes, and when I do these speeches, I should be able to speak from my heart and do it.

The issue is probably the community is getting too sensitive.

And I've been criticized, I've been undermined.

I've been, also because within our own community, I'm a privilege Colombian who came in on a plane, have papers.

My husband is a physician.

I live in a nice house, nice neighborhood.

So who is she to represent us or who is she to tell us something?

So I have to really, and I've had these conversations in different tables saying it doesn't matter, I'm not trying to represent anybody.

I represent myself, but I can help.

And in the table, all of us, we can put something that will help collectively.

And of course my experience is different.

But also, you don't know how I got here.

You don't know my past, the experiences I had and if I can speak on that.

But again, it's how we can get together.

So finally I had to back up and to be able to lead the organization, I'm leading, I have to do that.

I have to, because if not, it's going to get a negative impact in the work we do and how they see us and how they see me as a leader in the community.

- Jake, to Fiaza's point about the cover of the book and the book, Anna's point about stereotypes.

My stereotype is thinking in your fire hall, you guys probably aren't too sensitive.

- No.

[people laughing] - Yet, yet, beneath the surface of who you are is a very sensitive human being.

- I agree with that.

- So how do we balance knowing that there may be conversation, jokes, course language at times?

It's not because it comes with the territory or we think it does.

And yet maybe miss the motivation of people.

- I think especially the fire hall, stuff like that.

You gotta read the room because there might be somebody that's brand new that comes in, they don't know the culture you have in connections with those people in that room with you.

You just get, everybody kinda gets the comfortability of like, where you call it black or African American.

And like if someone's like, do you wanna be called white or Caucasian?

I just kinda look at them blankly 'cause I don't know how to answer that.

Like it doesn't matter to me.

So, but it's just the intent of the way the person that's saying it and looking at it from their heart.

It's like, are they joking right now?

Or is this person really just that evil hearted about something?

- But I think it's like too, the relationship, I think what you're alluding to maybe is the relationships that you have as individuals, as people.

Whenever you have a relationship with a person, like you mentioned about like someone new coming, you don't have a relationship with that person.

But having a relationship and building that gives you that grace for whenever you do make a mistake or maybe a mishap or your intentions, you can ask for forgiveness or you can say, ah man, I didn't mean to say it like that, you know, or I didn't intend that it came out the wrong way.

Yeah, or it came out the wrong way.

But if you don't have that relationship with other people, with other races, social media right?

Can break down some of those relationship building activities that we would typically do.

Then you remove that.

You don't have grace whenever, it's hard for you to give grace to someone that you don't know personally.

But if you build those relationships with people, you're able to do that and forgive them.

Right, and you could have more honest conversation.

- Just listening to y'all about the southern voice and having to lose it or being like made to talk.

Two of our really good friends, they're from Wisconsin.

One came to us to work at our department and we got introduced to those guys up there.

So we intermingle and we're all firemen.

And so like they'll sit there and do a long draw on something like, oh, okay, say milk.

It's like we just jab at each other about our accents and just chirp back and forth and like, I don't know, like.

- But y'all are cool like that.

- There's a relationship.

It gives you permission.

- But it's like when somebody says like, treats me a little different 'cause I got a long drawl or I can't say words more than two syllables or I can't spell right, that gives me more determination to show you what I can do.

So you go, oh, okay.

Like my accent has nothing to do about who I am and what I can do.

Like, and I've made sure to keep it too.

- Neither does my ink and my size.

- Catherine, you've been wanting to get in on this.

- Well, I was just going to say that, I mean the relationships are key because then you give that person the benefit of the doubt.

But then I also think it behooves us to try to use that same approach when we don't know somebody and try, I mean, listen, I am not perfect at this.

I'm not perfect at anything, but it's hard.

But to try to assume virtuous intent with what people bring.

And one of the mentors at my job said sometimes when calling somebody out for saying something that may be offensive or hurtful, you start by saying, I'm sure you didn't mean to sound this way, but when you said X, it made me feel this way.

And I really liked that.

I thought, you know, that it diffuses potential intense situations, but it also does, it assumes virtuous intent.

Like you didn't know, you weren't trying to be mean.

You didn't wake up this morning and say, and nobody wakes up in the morning and says, well, my intention is to tear somebody down, is to make somebody feel bad.

You know, and so I think that we try to give each other a little grace, which is not always easy and I know that I'm not always doing that.

But then we also have to allow ourselves to lean into our own vulnerability, give ourselves permission to fail in order to really live a wholehearted life.

So give ourselves some grace as well, then maybe we can make more progress in this space.

- Anna, you taught school, you're also a nurse.

Since you've been born, are we better off or worse?

- In certain ways, Like Lee was saying, I think our better days are ahead of us because part of it is we are talking more about some of these sensitive topics.

We are trying to educate our children that we are raising, we are trying to be sensitive to what we are exposing them to.

But the awareness of some of the issues is going to be what makes us better.

It's gonna make us want to elect that correct politician.

And I say correct, the most aligned to your values is the correct one for you, trying to go towards your faith and try to follow the master or the God that wants you to be better.

But the part that makes me feel worse that the society's worse, I feel like COVID did a big huge disjustice for us because there's so many people that went home, they were sent home and told to basically barricade themselves.

And you know, that wasn't an emotional instability because some people didn't have support, they didn't know who to talk to.

They were scared, they were unknowledgeable about the whole situation.

I can remember many a days going to work and crying, is this the day I'm gonna die?

But I knew I had patience that needed me.

So there's mental health that needs to be addressed in this country.

- I think you just named an example, a great example that there's so many things that are beyond our control.

A virus was beyond our control.

What happens in other parts of the world that impacts us, it beyond our control, but yet we have to find a way to live into it and deal with it.

This obviously still impacts you very deeply.

If you had to face something like this again.

- As a nurse, we were always taught treat everybody the same, treat them as if they're all contagious.

And that was one of the saving graces that through this whole ordeal, I did not get COVID until this year.

And of course it put me in the hospital for eight days and there was a lot of health issues and implications, which was the fear that if I caught it, so there's always gonna be those fears.

But I would still attack it and still deep down know that I had the desire to care and serve and I would still go and it's like Ashley and Lee, you know, you had a desire to serve and that's what prompted you.

Jake, you serve.

And I think, one of the things I wrote down here is social media has allowed us to have impersonal attitudes and rudeness and impatience and emotional instability.

And COVID just helped fire and fuel that, you see all these mass shootings all of a sudden, was that because of the mental health that was already there?

Or maybe it was from some COVID, but it's interesting to see, I feel like those are some of the problems that people don't have a way or a method to problem solve and to express their anger and upset and frustration.

And that's what has made our society worse.

- And one of the ways we've seen changes, we talked a little bit about AI and who knows what that's going to bring us.

And it will touch every one of us in some way, some more deeply than others.

But think about this change.

We've heard a lot of talk about God, creator, master Christ, our faiths, and yet there are less people going to church today than we've seen in decades.

Right after 9/11 churches and synagogues and mosque were packed.

What's happened is this part of the divide that we don't need to gather, it's safe to gather again.

Why do you think more people are staying home than finding that certitude and solace they used to find in a synagogue or a church or a mosque?

- I think a lot of people were just kind of burned out from organized religion.

I think some people got to the point and they realized with COVID you know, when they started doing virtual services like, hey, I don't necessarily have to go over there.

- I'm still worshiping.

- I'm still worshiping because I'm not a super faithful person.

But I am a believer and it's always weird because everybody says you can't be a scientist and be a faithful person.

Yes you can.

But I was always taught, the church isn't the building, the church isn't the people, the church is in your heart.

So do I need to physically go over there to worship?

No, do I need to go over there for a sense of community?

Yes, and that is the part that people left out.

- I'll add to that too.

I mean, I think, like you said, like during COVID, I mean I was watching sermons and I realized, I was like, I can watch them more than just on Sunday.

[person laughing] They're accessible, during my drive here, I mean, I think I probably listened to two or three and so just trying to prepare myself for the event.

But I think that just, it became more accessible.

And like churches who pre COVID had said, I will never get on social media.

I will never televise we will never do these things right.

And put out whenever their churches became empty, it forced them into utilizing technology to reach the masses.

And I think some of them have just not gone back to not doing that 'cause they realize that if I embrace the technology, then I'm able to reach more people.

And so I think that to your point, like growing that has been really important.

The other point I was gonna make too, right?

This does not represent, obviously, I'm representing myself, but I realized, you know, probably in the past, maybe a year or so, it became really a triggering point for myself whenever me as a Christian, whenever I heard hear people say Christian that they automatically assume that I am a Republican.

Snd I picked up on that later on because I was like, oh my goodness, I'm not saying I'm not, but what I'm saying is, is that that that assumption, that alignment that was happening is that if I go to the church, people are gonna think that I'm also aligned with all these other things because then pastor started preaching and bringing politics into the church and so the organized religion became in my mind like a bit tainted instead of listening and following, listening to God where we've started.

Yeah, so I think that, you know, that's kind of where those like two things kind of intersected for me a bit.

And I noticed that.

- Lee talking about, you mentioned a sense of community, a sense of gathering.

You know, we could have done these sessions on Zoom, but they would not have been as effective.

- [Speaker 3] True.

- Getting to know one another has allowed us to talk in ways that maybe we didn't talk to others that we didn't know before we let our guards down a little bit.

So I'm curious if you think there could be a connection with the sense of community that continues to appear to diminish in our ability to bridge this divide.

- I completely agree, yeah.

It becomes very impersonal when you're on a Zoom.

I mean, I can still be in my pajamas and not present myself appropriately and have a great time.

But you know, the social media has still allowed us to be impersonal and not really break down those barriers.

We're copying little paste that don't really say a lot about us, but they're just generic.

So when do you get down to the nitty gritty of knowing people like I can sit down and know that you're from Columbia and we talked about your dancing and we could have maybe done that on Zoom, but it wouldn't have meant as much.

It's fun that we've gotten to know each other and have relationships and the socialness of going to a gathering in church.

I mean, think about your college days when you went to parties.

- [Speaker] I'd rather not.

- And those ages, but you formed relationships whereas you can still drink in your own apartment or house or whatever.

But it wouldn't have meant the same, well you probably wouldn't dance on as many tables or acted as crazy or.

- I miss the conversation?

[people laughing] - But I think like social media does have like, its place, I mean I spent a long time away from my community and social media is how I stayed engaged.

And I think that if you use it properly and have social responsibility, it can help bridge families and help staying engaged with.

- Like distance.

- Right, distance wise.

And then I also think that, it comes back at your reflection of yourself, right?

The more algorithmically, that's the word, the algorithm of the social media sites.

The more that you click on and the more you like, the more people that you like, that's what you're gonna see back.

So whenever you keep looking at it and you're seeing all this negativity and think that's 'cause you clicked on it or because you stayed on the page too long, right?

So like when I look at mine, it's like prayer verses it's like please pray for me.

It's like my kid's birthday party.

And so whenever I hear people talk about, social media right?

And what it's doing, I'm like, 'cause it's a reflection of what you're putting out into the world, right?

What I get back is something that's totally different.

If you picked up my Facebook and looked at it, it will look drastically different than a lot of other people's, I mean.

- But that's exactly right.

- But you have to understand how social media works.

And whenever you have a population who was just dumped on, right, here's access to something but not explain how it operates.

You start thinking that everybody else sees exactly the same feed that you see and then you thinking that everybody else's, but you are only seeing a reflection of what you.

If you're scrolling through and you stay on that page too long or long, it calculates how long you're there.

Oh, let me get that back to you because you stayed there.

You know, it's kind of the joke around like, it must be listening to me because I was looking for new lawnmowers earlier and now all these new lawnmowers coming up.

It might be, yeah, it's because you, it takes all that data in and algorithmically sends it back to you.

- That happens on Google too.

- All of it.

- Yeah, all of it works similarly.

- Cookies.

- I wanted to mention something, a couple, 'cause we had a discussion yesterday, I think not just social media, but the polarization of people based off of politics in church is a very, very real thing.

And I have been in conversations where people are criticizing certain pastors.

I used to attend one church and criticizing the pastor for not talking about politics on the pulpit.

And then at my church, I love my church because they will not preach politics of any kind from the pulpit, but they will talk about the issues and they will pray for the president regardless of his political status.

They will talk about certain issues pro life and that sort of thing, but they won't make an entire sermon about it.

And other churches are very politicized.

So I mean, just seeing my church with all of its diversity, from every single, like this could be Calvary Church right here, like a whole group of people coming together to worship God.

We have small groups, I think it's important to actually join and get connected.

But people are jaded with, I think people are jaded with politics.

- [Speaker] Go ahead.

- Oh, I was just gonna say, I mean one of the things that I'm loved about some of our rabbis is, and in the reformed Jewish tradition, we don't read the Bible as a literal document.

It's interpreted.

So we don't take it verbatim.

And one of the things I've really appreciated is when they can apply the liturgy to present day things.

I mean, 'cause one of the big tenets in Judaism is you live a godly life by doing or good deeds for others.

That is how you live a holy life.

And so then, which is very practical, you know, and I appreciate that.

I mean there's so much in the Bible that not practical.

And I don't see it as politicizing.

I see it as how do we see, how do we apply some of the traditional teachings to the world today?

And I appreciate that.

- How do we see in going forward and trying to find a way not to hide from disagreements?

What did we learn that we can do?

Or do we want to hide from disagreements?

And I'm not saying I've gotta make my point to say I'm right, I'm just saying it's a disagreement.

It makes me feel uncomfortable.

It's easier to hide from it.

How do we change that way of being?

- I'm just a big fan of, tell me why you feel that way.

- Well, I think we've experienced a little of it here.

When there's a real disagreement about things.

We retreat into our space of comfort.

We may be present, but we're not present.

We may not defend for the fear that we're going to offend.

So we hold back and we hide a little bit.

- The most growth occurs when we leave our comfort zone.

- [Speaker] That's true.

- That is where real growth happens.

- But I think a wise person will, 'cause I tend to not be wise when it comes to, I spew things out and then I'm like, why did I say that?

But like, you know, I was talking to Anna and she was concerned that maybe she wasn't talking as much as somebody like me who doesn't shut up, but like I know there are leaders at my job and leaders all over that will sit and listen and then they'll formulate their ideas and they'll just wait for that one moment to say three words that make a huge impact.

And I think picking and choosing what you say, how you say it, how you frame it is something that I need to work on personally.

So if I ever get quiet, it's because I'm trying to teach myself a new way of trying to communicate.

- Lee, you ever hide from a disagreement?

- As I've gotten older, yes.

Only because sometimes it's not worth it.

You've gotta pick and choose your battles.

Younger me, all gas, no breaks, what'd you say?

Let's go.

But now it's like, you know what, it's not worth my job.

It's not worth my relationships.

It's not worth my friendships.

It's not worth possibly my freedom or my life for me to argue with this person in a vehement, vim and vigorous manner because I don't like what they said.

It's just not worth it sometimes.

- I say to add to that, like, I don't know if, I think there's a fear there now, if we disagree, like it could cost us our livelihood.

Like we can't speak up our point without being portrayed as a bigot or a racist or you don't know what you're talking about, but they try to go after your career or your family or whatever it may be.

Like ruin like what you've built just because you do disagree.

And that's on both sides, like it's hard.

Like I've seen people take just tongue lashing and just sat there knowing that they don't believe what that person's saying to them and not say I think back because they don't know how who they work for going to react to it or who's gonna say the wrong thing to make it where it's like, all right, you're gone.

- Or who's videoing it?

It's happening that you can't see.

- You just hit on something though, Jake.

There appears to be, to me, from my perspective, on my list of things that are worse, a spirit of meanness at times amongst people that may have been there before, but I didn't see it manifest this way, where I am out to get you or I am out to make you wrong.

I don't even know you, but I don't like what I heard that you heard that you said.

And so if you get destroyed in the process doesn't impact me.

Am I missing something there or do you sense a little of that?

- [Speaker 4] That's it.

- I think it goes back to like the whole Facebook thing.

If someone goes out to destroy you, Mr. Crabtree, that if they're not doing it in person, like if they were in person, they'd be a coward.

But they will fill Facebook and Instagram up with everything they can find.

Just like they would do it to me or anybody else's this table.

But to face somebody eye to eye, they'll usually back down.

Like to hide behind a screen anymore, I mean the suicide rates in kids going up because kids bullying and how mean their people's getting, like it's just they're not in person.

They can't read you from a screen to see how you're taking this.

- They're also not being held accountable for what they're doing either.

- Exactly.

- And so it emboldens you to do it more.

Whenever there's no accountability, right, for what you say on social media or anywhere, then it's just gonna embolden the next person and the next person to continue saying those things.

- And that's just getting more practice for being rude, mean, hurtful.

- And eventually it's gonna get in the wrong hands where it's like, I don't like this person.

Hey you remember that time they said this and then there's.

- You know, when I was in school grade school, and I won't tell my age.

[person laughing] But years ago we actually had communication skills and I feel that's one of the things that has been kind of lost.

And we had a hard time doing it as kids because we thought it was mean and stupid for the teachers to make us do this.

But we actually had several weeks of doing this 'cause we were in life, home skills where you were taught how to write a check, which kids nowadays are like, a what, you know?

But we actually had two telephones, the rotary dial phones and we were made to sit across from each other and we had to talk on the phone while we were looking at them in the eye.

And we were taught how to be polite.

We were taught how to answer the phone.

We were taught how to close a conversation and if there were word choices that were made, the other part of the class was watching and they critiqued us.

I mean that's almost a whole week's worth of doing that.

And with 30 kids, think of how many conversations were going on.

Do we have that nowadays?

Probably not.

- No, we have something called Toastmasters though, which was really cool 'cause they implemented it Family Dollar where I used to work.

And so we had a Family Dollar Toastmasters club and they actually taught you different ways of get to the point or we would have to write a speech, for different formats of speeches and consider your audience and that sort of thing.

And I think it would probably be good if it was executed at even a younger level where you're taught that in a school setting.

- I feel like some of that with the home life skills class that we had, I mean it was just about 45 minutes each day, but it was the same group of kids that was just a whole smorgasbord of cultures, ethnic groups.

And we got to relate to each other.

- [Speaker 2] Yes.

- And I'm guessing this was a requirement.

- It was.

And we did it for the whole team.

So all 200 of us did it.

- How could we, how might we require politicians or their handlers or the ad agencies that create a lot of the problems angst that we have felt and we talked about at this table.

How do we require them to take a course like this for 45 minutes and say there is a consequence if you don't pay attention to what we're saying.

- It has to start at the top.

- Have to start at the top.

Lead by example.

- Absolutely.

That has to be modeled by the people in the highest offices.

And never did I think in my lifetime somebody would use the word colored on the floor of Congress.

But because we have had leadership that has shown that they don't have to speak respectfully and use appropriate terminology, that has now empowered others to speak disrespectfully.

And so it really has to start at the top.

So the leadership in our country, which then will, it is the trickle down economics, not that I'm a Reaganite, but it has to start at the top up.

And there has to be accountability when our elected officials do miss the mark and they're human, they're gonna miss the mark.

But there are certain things that are just not acceptable and they have to be held accountable.

- And I think that's where the rub comes in because they're not acceptable to you.

It may not be acceptable to anyone at this table, but to somebody it may be a significant plurality in this country, it is acceptable.

- I don't think anybody can make a legitimate argument for saying, using the word colored to refer to people of color is acceptable in 2023 on the floor of Congress.

- It's not even in use academically except for in context.

So if it was in like, something from the fifties where that was the word that was used, like you're showing a picture of the water, the separate water fountains, separate but equal, that's when it's used.

But if I write a paper and call black people colored, it's gonna come back like, excuse me, friend, what did you just put in this paper?

Yeah.

Because this is the year of our Lord 2023.

You should not, and not only should not, cannot say that.

- Just like what is the appropriate terminology for like, 'cause I've heard different stories about what is socially acceptable at this point.

- It depends on the person.

I will go with black or African Americans.

Some people will say one, some people will say the other, colored isn't it, that we ain't been colored since the fifties.

So we just don't do that anymore.

- But people do say people of color referring to even me.

- People of color is not the same thing as colored people.

- Okay, it's a different conversation, okay.

- And you know, well again, we have a president who referred to people from Mexico as gringos.

I mean.

- [Speaker 3] That's inappropriate.

- It is wholly inappropriate, but it's hard to make an argument for those of us, boots on the ground to say, you know, you can't use language like that.

And it's like, well, you president does.

- Or I know someone who says these things.

My favorite one is, well I've heard my, insert whichever marginalized group of friends say that, why can't I say that?

And it's like, well, number one, why do you want to say that?

Number two, why did you say that?

And number three, why is it in your lexicon in the first place?

Because a lot of people will get busted saying something and then the first thing they say is, I'm not like that.

I don't say these things.

And it's like, but you had to reach for that.

It had to be there for it to get there.

- Okay.

But can we talk about hip hop culture for a second then?

If we're talking about derogatory terms and we're talking about things that would be offensive.

The N word is all over their music.

- And I can say it because I'm one of them.

- So I have some, there were just a group of people, Caucasian, and they had some black friends and they got involved in the hip hop culture and that was their thing.

And their black friends allowed them to use the N word as just a being part of.

- The black people I grew up with.

'Cause I'm gonna tell you right now, anybody that, in the group of friends that I had, anybody who wasn't black who said it, that was the end of our friendship right there, because they knew better.

I mean, especially, I think there's a comedian that talks about it.

He is sub continental Indian, and he was like in love with, he was like in like middle school, he was in love with this girl.

And she was a white girl.

And it was maybe when some of the west coast G funk era rap came out and he was like, don't say it.

Don't say it, don't say it, like ended in the N word.

Like that line of the lyric, not only did she say it, she ended it with the hard R. And he was like, I can't do this.

So there is no time or place in which it's ever appropriate.

Now some black people will argue we shouldn't use it either.

And I understand the theory because it is a pejorative, it is a slur.

You could argue reclamation of language.

Like when I mentioned queer at the first session, that's a reclamation of language thing, but some people are always gonna be offended by it.

And there's nothing I can do about it.

But I can say it because I am it, and I understand what you're saying about it being offensive, but it's also not up to somebody not in that group to tell me what's offensive.

- I think it's fair to say everyone at this table loves the state of North Carolina.

- [Speaker 4] Yes.

- They love living here.

Love the people here.

Even when we disagree, even when we are emphatic in our disagreements.

So with that as the foundation, how do we move forward and further recognizing where these divisions are and what we individually can do about it?

Can we do anything about it?

And how do we spread that message to other people of saying it's time to try?

Who wants to go first, Vilar.

Oh, okay, thank you.

- Sorry, I had a thought that came to my mind.

I think that the leadership in the state needs to be a reflection of the people in the state, both in the senate, representatives, cabinet.

I think right now we have the most diverse cabinet is what I heard than what we've ever had.

Committees, committee appointments need to be able, need to be diverse and they need to be representative of the people and all those different appointments.

And who we vote for is all a reflection really of us.

It should look like the people.

I know there's close to 200.

North Carolina is home to the largest population of indigenous people east of the Mississippi River.

There's over 200,000 that live here in North Carolina.

And we had, I think our first deputy director Cashwell, who's all in the cabinet like today and didn't happen today, but she's been there.

Amazing, but it took us all this time, right, for that to happen.

But we need to continue that path.

And I think that that's where we really start to see the change as we see intentional appointments that are looking like the people that are in the state.

- Is it all up to government?

- I think it's up, yeah.

I think it's partially up to government.

I think it's the people in the county speaking up, understanding how committee appointments work, you know, applying for those committee appointments, but also ultimately it's for example, on the board of education.

I mean, it's up to them, for example, the people that we put there to help move that forward.

But our voice needs to be louder than what it is in the state.

To push for that change, - You need to also get out and vote.

People don't vote, it's just so sad.

- Yeah, people need to vote, yeah.

- But I would say to get to that also as our community level, we need to have these conversations and also inform those people we want to put in these positions about and a lot.

And I think you too, about talking to the community, learning from the community about what is needed, what is happening, and what needs to be done so we can inform those changes.

And then even to bring people to those positions, we need to support from the community also so they can be there and supporting them.

Because then we've seen it, sometimes we have people at the table, like Latinos in council or things like that, but they don't connect with the community so they fail.

So yeah, we have representation, but we don't because they don't connect with the community.

So I think it's from different angles that we need to really make the changes.

And it's not easy either.

- But I think going back to education, I think is really key.

I mean, I'm born and raised North Carolinian, I'm a Tarheel proud.

My Carolina Blue runs in my veins, and I received a fantastic education through our public school system, and I wanna see that continue.

I have my kids in our public schools and we have to, Stick to the important points of exposing our children to facts and ideas and then let them make the decisions.

We had a great conversation yesterday.

She has, I'm not trying to indoctrinate my kids.

My role as their parent.

And my hope for our educational system is we give our children all of the information that they need so that they know about words like queer, so that they know about all of the amazing advances in science, and then they can decide for themselves good, bad.

And so as a state, my hope and my prayer and I'm afraid, but my hope and my prayer is that we can continue to provide an excellent education for our children and not fall prey to the fearmongering that's leading to book banning in other states.

That is a fear of mine.

- I'm concerned about the book banning because it starts with things like the 1619 project, you know, historical book fact.

It starts with things like books about gender and sexuality.

And then once they get rid of all the humanities driven things, they're coming for science, they're coming for science.

They just haven't figured out how to do it yet.

- It already happened - It happened during COVID, but that was the test.

That was the test run.

They could easily change the way they teach it.

They could force us to change the way we talk about it.

And if that happens along with book banning and other subjects, it's over.

- Yeah, but follow up on that just for a moment.

Yesterday, previous session, I had three books on the table.

One happened to be To Kill a Mockingbird, and the reason there's a move amongst some people to not use this book, the way it has been used is because it contains the N word.

Now, knowing that, is there context for that word in your belief to be used in this classic?

- In that book, yes.

Because of how it was used, the time it was set in, the period it was set in.

And when it was said, honestly, now that'd be different than just randomly using say at this table of discussion, that would not be.

- And when I asked the question earlier, have we become too sensitive?

Are we being too sensitive?

Could that be a case where sensitivity is taken too far because of the context, the time that Harper Lee wrote the novel?

- I would think so in this case.

But I may not be the best person to ask because of my time in the military, because of my time in corrections, there are a lot of things that I don't find as offensive as other people would.

And it's actually one of the things we're talking about at work right now.

They have me doing some things and then I was like, I might not be the person to ask.

I may not find this offensive as somebody who's never had the experiences and seen the things that I've seen.

You know, they may not see this the same way.

It's gonna be hard to see it through their eyes.

- So how do they make the decision, I'm sorry?

- How do we make the decision in this case, with this book, I would leave it.

- No, in general, in general, I'm saying.

- And that's the rub.

Like number one, how do we make the decision?

Like in which cases is it okay, in which cases is it not?

And who decides that?

- We have to, I mean it's related to facing the difficult chapters of our past.

Like we have, we have to teach that hatred.

And I would argue that the N word represents hatred.

That hatred existed, exists.

I mean, my grandparents had a copy of Mein Kampf, which was Hitler's manifesto.

We also have to understand and try to understand people of differing opinions as hard as they may be so that we can try to build bridges.

- Yeah, I can I add to that?

I think, and Ash's point was it's a matter of representation.

I think what happens in Charlotte is that the conservative party tends to get, it's a very, very liberal town.

And so when it comes to education and stuff like that, our voices are not, we're being dismissed all the time.

So like people are dismissing our opinions and we're not given a seat at the table when it comes to talking about education, we'll run for office and stuff like that.

But the percentage of conservatives that are in the county either aren't voting or aren't being invited to contribute to the conversation.

So all these decisions are being made, parents aren't being made aware of the exact curriculum, that sort of thing.

And so it just feels like an imbalance, we just feel like we're not being represented at all.

And this is impacting our future children or the future of our children.

- No, you make me think, going back to if we are too sensitive, you know, in our culture, a lot of our songs use the N word.

in our country, a lot of people call their sisters with the N word, For us, everything is diminutive.

Yes, so, everything is like little.

And even when I came, I called my my daughters because it's how my mom used to call me.

[speaking in foreign language] Is like fatty, so I know.

Look at your expression.

[person laughing] So I remember the first time I was talking to my girls and my husband who is from New York, he was like, you just call your daughters fatty?

And I was like, like fatty.

I was like, no, really, no how you're making it sound is a like.

[speaking in foreign language] Is a loving word for us, even though it sounds funny.

And then, yeah, I stopped calling them when we move here and they were like, we don't like that.

We are your.

[speaking in foreign language] So still calling us.

[speaking in foreign language] And I thought, yes, between us and my husband has three older kids and the oldest one one day came and said, you know what?

I want to be one of your.

[speaking in foreign language] I want you to call me.

[speaking in foreign language] because I see it's a loving word, but talking about all of that.

And it's interesting.

And now she's my.

[speaking in foreign language] Too.

[person laughing] - You know, one thing that we had a mayor in our area that was really good about this and it was something that even I spoke with my neighbors about at one point in time, but he would have community town hall forums and he would invite a section of the town.

And it was kind of funny how for even large trash pickup we're divided, I think it is what, 18 different zones in my area.

And so he would have a town hall meeting with each one of them to find out, what are some of the issues we're having, how are we gonna help get to that?

What are some of the ideas?

And here's what we're doing.

And it was an education into that area.

And of course it made a big difference if in that community you wanted to have your voice heard.

If you wanted to have that diverse representation, that meant you were going to go to that town hall.

And if that town hall meeting you couldn't attend that one, there was possibly gonna be someone, another one elsewhere that you would still be invited and welcome to.

But I really appreciated that mayor who was engaging with the community.

He wanted to hear what they had to say and he showed us that he was willing to change and help make the changes.

And it's just fantastic.

How, I remember one of the forms I went to, we talked about having a local area, a district or a strip where there was restaurants, what do we have now?

We have an entire street and zone of little art sections.

We've rebuilt, we've rebirthed some of our area and it's really cool because you can park in a certain area, you can go eat and drink as you just go up and down the street.

Or you can choose different venues that you want to go to.

But it felt really good and empowering to know that I was sitting at that community town town hall where he wanted to hear what we had to say and he listened.

- Which is the opposite of what you just mentioned, Nisha, of not being able to be listened to or feeling like you're not listened to.

- We have people that are Republican conservatives that show up to every single meeting, but the population of Republicans is, some people don't show up.

You know, our voters barely vote in local elections and local elections is where it happens.

This is where you have to be part of the local election process, it's very frustrating when people don't come out and vote.

I was passing out voter registration cards to people knocking on doors and they go, well is my vote gonna matter?

Why should I show up?

And I'm like, because if everybody says that, we're not going to be represented.

- Yeah, it is frustrating to be in a minority, no matter how that minority is created.

When you're in the minority, you feel a sense of marginalization maybe you'd never felt before.

I remember several years ago you said to me, and I kept this quote, we're talking about sense of community and you said, who are my neighbors and what do I owe them?

Are central questions for us to ask.

So as we began to bring all of this to a close, these marvelous discussions, I think it's worth asking the question, who are my neighbors and what do I owe them?

- So I think it's very easy to say, love thy neighbor, but how do you love thy neighbor?

And in this courageous conversation, we need to go further up and say courageous actions.

So when I moved to this, that's how I know Miss, that when we moved to this area and you know, we never had any good reputation initially as Muslims.

So when I moved to this area where there were none, and then it was end of Ramadan.

So I passed on the emails that we are here, moved in here and we just celebrating the Ramadan.

So you're welcome to come and share with us.

We could not believe that there were about 50, 60 people showed up.

A 94-year-old lady, my neighbor never knew, she walked all the way to to meet us.

And then it so happened that with that little interaction, everybody knew.

And it was amazing to find somebody who had worked overseas in the oil company that I once worked with Aramco, and there were people who met each other said they never knew who lived in the next door for 20 years.

Oh God.

And that brought everybody today to this point where even the firetrucks pass by without honking, they don't go.

And the biggest opposition was my kids, oh no daddy, what are you doing this, this is going to be creating this.

And then no, no, no, let's take it and see what the reaction is.

And it is such a positive way to do that.

You make that move.

You go take that courageous action of knocking on the neighbor's door, here I am.

This is who I am, you're welcome to come.

If they disagree, that's fine.

But you don't have to keep them on a lower level.

Say, well these are my neighbors.

And so that's what, to this day, these neighborhoods, they're really so nice to me that I just can't tell you how good that little action has a major reaction.

That it's just wonderful.

- Jake, you're a firefighter because you were a good neighbor in the sense of looking out for your neighborhood.

- Right.

- So you know this firsthand.

- I mean people don't know their neighbors anymore, really, like next door.

But like neighbor, just 'cause it's next door doesn't mean you're not, it could be 20 miles away.

It could still be considered a neighbor.

It's not a geographical location when you say neighbor to me, 'cause like I have no attachments to the city I work in.

None my family's ever lived there, but that's where I chose to go help.

- Is that the legacy we want to leave that maybe by reaching out and understanding who neighbors are accepting me as your neighbor.

Even if you disagree with me, that it gives us a chance to break down this divide.

Is that a starting point?

- Yeah, definitely.

- Will it be ultimately the ending point, I don't know.

- It's a starting point.

- Traditions, to go back to some of your sweet Southern hospitality.

I mean I'm on the committee from my direct neighborhood of, we have a welcoming crew.

So anytime a house is sold and turned over, we take a basket of goodies and it's typically a roll of toilet paper, paper towels, some little snacks and.

- No, that makes sense 'cause that's in that path and they can't find.

- Yeah, exactly.

What's the number one thing you can't find when you just first moved in and you know, just showing that we care, we care and we're here as a group.

- With all the major divisions we have, will they get traction?

- I mean, so I'm fortunate I live in an old neighborhood and so you get real close to your neighbors physically.

I mean you can look into their windows and see what's going on.

- [Speaker] They can look into yours.

- Oh yeah.

I mean they, our next door neighbor used to say, how did you like that show you were watching?

He was 13.

It was really fun, no, it was really fun.

It was really fun.

But so my immediate next door neighbors, we are not politically aligned and yet we have a deep connection.

I mean, I was literally present for the birth of their child.

That was an honor.

And yet like we can still have a mutual understanding because before even getting to the political stuff, we had a foundation of friendship.

And so I very much believe that knowing your neighbors and building relationships with your neighbors can allow that.

We don't intentionally talk about politics a lot.

- First step to getting to know them, but at least it helps break some of that barrier of, oh, I have a neighbor, but I don't know who you are.

- Yeah, I mean I think you can't open with some of these more difficultly.

- Absolutely, no, but it's a starter.

- Like for me, I'm the Latina in the neighborhood, so I'm the noisy one.

I'm the one who when you drive around is the only ones we have signs when local elections or state elections are happening.

And so I think I've tried, but they are still.

So we were very good friends with the neighbors and then they left.

But the rest has been difficult for me, they still have in mind that's the Latina who is married to a physician.

So she does nothing, knows nothing, she's nobody kind of, and yeah, but probably listening to everybody, I need to find a way to break that through.

- Yeah, invite them to one of your dances.

- Oh, I've done it.

Oh, the kids actually some of the kids for New Year's Eve, we have a huge party at home.

And we have the tradition at midnight we drink champagne, 12 grapes for wishes.

And then we run around the neighborhood with a suitcase.

So you will travel next year.

So the first years.

- Is this every night?

[person laughing] - [Speaker 3] Just New Year's.

- Sorry, I missed that part.

- Encouraging.

- Just new years.

But the first years, the kids, the neighbor's kids were little and they really look at us like crazy people.

The ones who were awake, yes, the others were sleeping.

But then when the kids got to the teenage ages, they waited for us at their house.

So when we passed, they will join us.

The suitcase.

Somehow.

- So to the table, what do you want to say you haven't said, what do you want to say that maybe you're thinking that you want to say?

- I'll start this one off.

When you mentioned nextdoor, like the Nextdoor app and all that.

Nextdoor is divisive by nature because I live in a community that there was a lot of white flight from.

So the white people that are still there are older and the younger folks bought their houses when it was like people who inherited their houses.

Kids didn't want it, sold it.

In fact, we have one that just flipped.

It was being flipped for like way more than the comp.

Sorry, we're a little confused.

And our neighbor across the street is one of the older white families that stayed.

And you mentioned the welcoming committee.

She came over when we first moved in and was like, hi, I'm your neighbor, you know, and you know, her husband has since passed and so we've always done stuff for her, while she's hailing Hardy, I mean, she's a widow that lives alone.

So she'll go outta town.

We'll walk the dog around her property, make sure, you know, there's no windows broken, anything like that.

But next door specifically, I can't tell you a number of times where I've driven into my own neighborhood.

There's a black muscle car driving around the neighborhood being loud.

I'm like, it's me.

It is me, like I live, you know what?

He's like fine.

And that's a tame incident.

I've heard other people in other neighborhoods, like cops get called on like random black guy walking the dog.

Cops get called them and they're like, I live in that house over there.

Sure you do, things like that.

And part of it goes back to social media apps, you can't take, and I've always been told this and sometimes I believe it and sometimes I don't.

You can't take tone from text and half those people are keyboard warriors anyway.

And they ain't gonna say it to your face if you were standing right next to them.

So like if you're gonna say, ooh, random black person walking down the street, would you have said it to me in person?

Probably not, so I'm just not super worried about it.

At the end of the day, Facebook isn't real life, apps aren't real life.

It's how I interact with people in meet space that is real life face-to-face is real life.

- Can I say something about that?

The phone call, I tend to be, I think every anybody could be my son or daughter, right?

And so when I'm driving and I don't know if it's the best thing to do, some police are probably just like, just don't.

But I will call the police if I think someone's life might be in danger, if someone was walking against traffic on a highway and could very easily have it.

I think that, I don't remember if the weather was inclement on top of that, but like it was not a good situation.

And I call to the cop and I said, hey, I'm on a highway.

This person's walking against traffic and the position that he was in looked like he was in danger.

Okay, they said, we'll send somebody out, you know, just to check it out.

I wouldn't want an accident to happen 'cause I nearly hit the person 'cause they were crossing the street.

- Now that's different because that's an actual unsafe.

- That was not a black man.

- But that's an actual unsafe act, I would call in that case on anybody walking down the highway in a strange manner.

- Let me finish.

So what happens, this is the point.

I called on a black man one time 'cause it was a very dark road.

He wasn't wearing any reflectors and he was not walking on the sidewalk.

He was close to the street and I could have hit him.

And I called, what sounded like a stereotypical black voice answered the phone.

She got offended, he didn't commit any crime, he didn't do anything.

And why are you calling?

Why are you're reporting this?

And I'm like, I did exactly the same thing to a white man on a highway first.

- Did you call 911 or was it the non-emergency line?

- [Speaker 2] I called 911.

- That might've been why too.

But having been a jailer, the municipality I worked in had a citation and we used to call it the Dr. Seuss citation.

It's no white light on bike at night.

See what we call it Dr. Seuss citation, it rhymes.

And if you wanted to make sure you go to jail, be a non-white person riding a bike with no lights at night, they will take you and your bike to jail for no reason.

- So that's why she probably thought I was trying to get him in trouble.

- Exactly.

- But I mean, how do you be a responsible citizen and be afraid of offending people, remember the movie was it Crash?

- [Speaker 3] Yes.

- Where there was a black guy and a white guy and there was that stereotype where he was taking something out of his pocket and he thought it was a gun, but he was really just trying to relate to the person.

- I've had this happen personally.

The week I came back from Iraq, I was driving down US one somewhere in Moore County, like right at the Moore line.

And I get pulled up, it's the middle of the night.

At this point in time, I drove a safety yellow, low rider truck.

And they said, I broke into the lone C store in the flashing light town.

There's no way I could've done this.

They arrested me on probable cause, took me downtown, held me.

And at the time I was still in the military, so I was like, Hey, maybe you should turn me over to Fort Bragg MPs so they can have Fort Stewart come get me.

This is after they wouldn't believe I was military even though they saw by searching my truck and tearing it apart on the side of US1.

Which by the way, if you get your vehicle searched like that, they don't put it back together.

They found my dog tags, my military ID.

I had dirty DCUs from Iraq and my leave form.

And they're like, nah.

So when I said, hey, you really do have to turn me over to the military police.

They're like, fine.

I guess you didn't meet the description.

Well, excuse me sir, what was the description?

You know what it was.

I was like, wow, okay.

You know, so it took me back to my truck, which was mighty nice of them.

We get back to the truck and then the police officer's like, Hey, is this your truck?

I'm like, didn't you run the plates?

They didn't even run the plates.

They just looked at me and arrested me.

- Is that legal?

- Depends.

And probable cause, probably if they have probable cause to arrest you, they can without a warrant.

- What else are you thinking that you wanted to say that you believe in that we haven't talked about?

Or you wanna leave us with a thought of what your legacy in this conversation can be?

- That's a tough call.

- At the end of the day, be cool.

Don't be a jerk.

- I said that's a tough call.

But just like what we have done, what you have put together a courageous conversation.

Each individual should take the same lesson and go into the communities and try to gather and exchange this information.

Hopefully by that time they will be maybe able to even watch it.

But it is that fear.

The moment you remove the fear, things go very easy.

And there's a lot of fear out there for so many reasons.

And that's what we've been discussing and who said one of the presidents said, we have to fear the fear itself.

Eisenhower, yeah FDR.

So that goes back, even though that's hundreds of years old quotation but still is alive and we need to work on that one I think.

- Ashley.

- I think that we just need to have more of these type of conversations.

I'm hoping I leave the conversation with everyone learning a little bit more about not only myself and I think the native people of North Carolina as well.

I think we need to learn more about each other and just be more open to listen to the voices in the community and how things are impacting each other.

I wanna encourage everyone to learn more about the indigenous people that's on your land or that was previously occupying, right?

The land that we all are occupying, the eight state recognized tribes that are here.

We have two fairly, both the Kaaba and southern part of Charlotte and also the Cherokee.

We wanna make sure that you're learning about the different cultures.

I think North Carolina's in a very unique situation where for the past 55 years you've had powwows and cultural celebrations for Native American people.

That we invite others to come and learn about who we are and about our culture.

And a lot of them are likely very close to to all of you.

And so I just encourage to learn more about our culture and then also learn more about each other's.

- Yeah, no, I really like this opportunity and I think I've said it, that we don't take the time to have these conversations, so thank you for bringing us, but also I'm picturing continuing connected, but also I've had this idea that I would love to have all of you come in and talk to our community because I think it's the way we need to, we can learn from each other and listen and have these type of conversations.

So I was thinking, when can I invite all of you to El Centro and have this conversation?

- [Speaker 4] Can there be a dance program?

And authentic as well.

- It wouldn't be a Latino meeting if we don't have music and dance, so.

- Well I think it's safe to say that we have all learned something different about each other and something we didn't know when we met each other we first got together, which is an example of how we learn, build bridges, whatever term we want to use about easing the divide and giving people the opportunity to say, I really haven't thought of that.

That's the key, Catherine, anything you'd like to add?

- I think from my kind of closing thought is something that I try and tell myself and that I'm hoping will resonate with others is at the end of the day, we're all human beings.

And this is what I tell my students and my residents is, as a doctor, our job is to take care of human beings.

It doesn't matter, if they have a swastika tattoo, I'm still gonna take good care of them.

And so regardless of our differences of opinion and belief, we still take care of each other because we're human beings.

And I so enjoyed getting to know all of you, and I think you are those kinds of people anyway.

But perhaps if we continue to spread the message that in spite of our differences, we take care of each other.

We're human beings, we take care of each other and we treat each other with kindness.

- Anna.

- Bring back that respect and value life.

Take the time, get to know your neighbors, - Jake.

- I mean this whole table's so diverse.

Don't be afraid to reach out and learn more from somebody that you might be scared of like a pickup truck with a gun sticker.

It's a world culture.

We just own a portion of it and learning everybody else's culture.

- Isha.

- Well, I think that maybe, perhaps, and if anybody else is on board with the idea, we could keep in touch, but also maybe form an almost counsel.

And so if one of us sees something that somebody else is complaining them to about somebody, that might be Latino or somebody that might be Republican or somebody that might be Muslim, or just a complete ignorance of the Native American community, which is pretty much a lot of the state, I think, we could actually help each other help others build a bridge and be proactive about it.

Go back to our own like-minded people to say, why do we actually feel like you coming to me with a direct question?

We could like, why do you think this way?

And we can go back, facilitate the right conversation and the right argument and align it and present it in a way that would be understandable to somebody that doesn't understand it.

And maybe we can make bridges ourselves and expand them into our communities.

- Catherine, Vilar, Jake, Lee, Nisha, Ashley, Iaz, Anna, I thank you and keep doing the work you're doing.

- [Speaker] And thank you too.

- Thank you.

- So much, it's been marvelous.

- Yes, yes, this wow.

- Yes.