>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM, BLACK UNC STUDENTS DEMAND MORE SAFETY AND DIGNITY ON CAMPUS.

U-S IMPACT AND INFLUENCE ON UNREST IN THE CARIBBEAN.

AND WHAT'S FAIR IN SPORTS AND RACE.

OUR GUESTS AND PANEL GIVE THEIR PERSPECTIVES, STAY WITH US.

♪ >> WELCOME TO BLACK ISSUES FORUM I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

A LOT HAPPENING IN OUR WORLD TODAY.

WE'LL GET OUR PANEL'S TAKE ON IT, BUT FIRST WE FOCUS ON WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT HERE IN CHAPEL HILL.

THIS PAST WEEKEND, A VIDEO SHOWING 2 MEN BEARING A CONFEDERATE FLAG AND DESECRATING A MONUMENT CREATED TO HONOR FREE AND FORMERLY ENSLAVED BLACKS ON THE CAMPUS OF UNC CHAPEL HILL, HAS NOW DRAWN OVER 28,000 VIEWS ON TWITTER.

THE VIDEO WAS POSTED BY A STUDENT RUN TWITTER ACCOUNT, UNC ANTI RACIST ALERTS.

WHICH ALSO LATER POSTED IN A TWEET THAT THE INCIDENT QUOTE, "MAKES IT CLEAR THAT UNC MUST ACT NOW "TO ADDRESS THE DEMANDS ISSUED BY BLACK STUDENT MOVEMENT TO IMPROVE SAFETY OF BLACK STUDENTS FACULTY AND STAFF" AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE WITH US ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, DOCTOR WILLIAM STURKEY, DOCTOR STURKEY THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME WITH BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

LET ME JUST ASK YOU SO OFTEN HATE GROUPS LEAN ON FREE SPEECH AS A DEFENSE FOR HATE SPEECH, AND WE KNOW THAT UNC CHAPEL HILL IS A PUBLIC UNIVERSITY.

IS THERE ANY OTHER GROUP ON THE CAMPUS THAT HAS HAD TO FACE THIS KIND OF HATE SPEECH AND WHAT'S BEEN DONE?

>> WELL, I GOT TO TELL YOU IT'S REALLY INCONSISTENT BECAUSE A LOT OF THE STUDENTS DON'T ENJOY FREE SPEECH.

THEY'VE HAD SIGNS TAKEN, THEY'VE BEEN FOLLOWED BY POLICE, POLICE HAVE INFILTRATED A PEACEFUL SIT-IN AT ONE POINT AND EVEN FACT WHAT HE CAN FACE REPERCUSSIONS.

THE HEAD OF THE UNC PRESS BOARD WAS JUST DENIED HIS OWN REAPPOINTMENT BECAUSE HE WAS CRITICAL OF THE SILENT SAM SETTLEMENT MADE A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

AND SO IT'S REALLY INCONSISTENT WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE SAY WE MUST PROTECT FREE SPEECH, BUT THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT REALLY DEFENDING ARE THE FOLKS THAT COME ON CAMPUS WITH CONFEDERATE MONUMENTS AND SCREAMING THE N WORD AT PEOPLE.

>> WELL, THIS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THE CAMPUS BECAUSE STUDENTS ARE FEELING THREATENED, BUT ALSO THERE'S JUST A LOT HAPPENING AT UNC CHAPEL HILL RIGHT NOW TO CREATE AN ENVIRONMENT THAT'S NOT FRIENDLY TO THE STUDENTS BUT ALSO FOR THE FACULTY.

HOW ARE YOU FEELING AS A FACULTY MEMBER, A BLACK FACULTY MEMBER ON THAT CAMPUS GIVEN ALL THAT'S TRANSPIRED?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THAT CAN BE VERY CHALLENGING BECAUSE IT HAS TO DO WITH THE HISTORY OF RACE, AND AS A BLACK PROFESSOR THAT STUDIES THE HISTORY OF RACE IN THIS COUNTRY, WE'RE CONSTANTLY CALLED UPON BY STUDENTS, BY THE PUBLIC ETCETERA, TO SORT OF TRY AND SORT OUT SOME OF THESE MAJOR ISSUES, AND IT JUST SEEMS LIKE WE JUST CAN'T GET IT RIGHT.

OUR LEADERS ARE INFLUENCED BY SO MANY POLITICAL FACTORS, MANY OF WHOM KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT HISTORY, THEY JUST HAVE THEIR OWN SENSIBILITIES.

AND WE JUST KEEP SWINGING AND MISSING ON THESE THINGS, AND ONE THING THEY'VE NEVER DONE IS TO REALLY CONSIDER THE PERSPECTIVE OF OF BLACK STUDENTS FACULTY AND TAXPAYERS, BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO THAT IT ACTUALLY BECOMES PRETTY SIMPLE WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD HAVE BUILDINGS NAMED FOR KLANSMAN AND WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE CONFEDERATE MONUMENTS STILL STANDING IN THE YEAR 2019 LIKE WE DID.

>> HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A FACULTY MEMBER AT UNC CHAPEL HILL AND WHY DO YOU STAY?

>> I'VE BEEN A FACULTY MEMBER SINCE 2015.

UNC CHAPEL HILL WHEN I WAS IN GRADUATE SCHOOL WAS DEFINITELY MY DREAM SCHOOL IT'S A GREAT PUBLIC INSTITUTION, IT'S PROBABLY THE BEST PLACE IN THE WORLD TO STUDY THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN SOUTH.

SO I HAVE A VERY GOOD JOB.

I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN MY FATHER EVER DID.

MY FAMILY CAME FROM A LOT OF WORKING CLASS BACKGROUND.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME IT IS MORE DIFFICULT I THINK TO BE A BLACK FACULTY MEMBER THAN IT IS TO BE A WHITE FACULTY MEMBER ON ON MANY MANY DAYS BECAUSE WE'RE CALLED UPON BY BLACK STUDENTS WHO ARE REALLY STRUGGLING.

AND SO YOU KNOW IT'S HARD TO THINK ABOUT EQUITY WHEN YOU KNOW WE'RE ALL GETTING PAID THE SAME BUT OUR JOBS ARE FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STARTING TO JUST SEE OTHER OPPORTUNITIES.

I DON'T THINK UNIVERSITIES AND THEY JUST THINK THAT THEY CAN LIVE A MORE PEACEFUL PRODUCTIVE LIFE.

BUT HAVING THESE CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE.

>> WE'LL DEFINITELY SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE ON BLACK ISSUES FOR DOCTOR WILLIAM STURKEY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AND RIGHT NOW I'D LIKE TO WELCOME UNC STUDENT AND PRESIDENT ELECT OF THE CAMPUS NAACP, JARA FAYE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH JARA FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> NOW WE KNOW THAT THE INCIDENT THAT OCCURRED ON THE CAMPUS HAD TO BE TROUBLING TO MANY MANY STUDENTS AND BOTH OF THESE MEN HAD TROUBLING HISTORIES WITH RACIAL VIOLENCE.

HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL THOUGH TO KNOW AND TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED ON YOUR CAMPUS?

>> TO BE FRANK, I WAS SICK TO MY STOMACH.

I FELT PHYSICALLY ILL, NAUSEOUS, TO SEE THAT AND SEE THERE WERE MULTIPLE VIDEOS OF THEM SAYING AND DOING JUST DISGUSTING THINGS, THREATENING TO POUR ACID ON THE MEMORIAL, THREATENING TO ENSLAVE BLACK STUDENTS AND WHIP THEM AND LYNCH THEM IT WAS COMPLETELY DISTURBING.

>> TRAUMATIZING.

AND HAS ANYONE ON THE CAMPUS BEEN SUPPORTIVE?

WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT HAVE YOU RECEIVED FROM ANYONE ON CAMPUS IN TERMS OF THE ADULTS OR DEAN?

>> MULTIPLE FACULTY MEMBERS HAVE SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THIS WHICH TO ME IN ITSELF IS POWERFUL BEING THAT EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE EMPLOYED BY THE UNIVERSITY, THEY ARE STILL SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THESE ATROCIOUS ACTIONS.

COMMUNITY MEMBERS LIKE THE CHAPEL HILL-CARBORRO NAACP HAVE SPOKEN OUT AGAINST THE RECENT EVENTS.

>> BUT IN TERMS OF PROVIDING SOME KIND OF EMOTIONAL AND EMOTIONAL COUNSELING SUPPORT FOR STUDENTS LIKE YOURSELF WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS, IS THERE ANYTHING LIKE THAT ON THE CAMPUS?

>> I MEAN... TO BE FRANK, NO.

I MEAN WE HAVE OUR CAPS PROGRAM WHICH IS LIKE ARE COUNSELING SERVICES, EVEN THEN, THERE ARE NO REAL - OR NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE THERE AREN'T ANY PROGRAMS TAILORED TOWARDS RACIAL TRAUMA, SO WE REALLY HAVE NO WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT.

>> WHAT YOU DO HAVE IS A LIST OF DEMANDS THAT BLACK STUDENTS HAVE ISSUED.

CAN YOU SHARE WHO DESIGNED THESE DEMANDS, HOW MANY OF THEM ARE THERE, AND WHAT ARE THE MOST KEY TO THE STUDENTS CONCERNS.

>> THIS LIST WAS CREATED BY THE UNC BLACK STUDENT MOVEMENT AND IT'S A LIST OF 13 DEMANDS, AND IT'S IN MY OPINION, ALL OF THEM ARE LIKE AS EQUALLY IMPORTANT SO WE HAVE THINGS AS FAR AS CHANGING THE WAY OUR GRADE AND APPEAL SYSTEM IS SET UP BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE PROFESSORS THAT HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO PENALIZE STUDENTS WHO SPEAK ABOUT THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH RACISM.

THINGS LIKE GETTING MORE BLACK MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS IN OUR COUNSELING SERVICES SINCE THERE'S NOBODY THAT LOOKS LIKE US THAT WE CAN TALK TO THAT WE FEEL SAFE TALKING TO.

MOVING OUR AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES DEPARTMENT TO ANOTHER SETTING OUT OF THE BUILDING THAT IT'S IN.

THE BUILDING IS NAMED AFTER KNOWN WHITE SUPREMACISTS.

SO JUST THINGS LIKE THAT JUST BASICALLY CREATING A CAMPUS THAT ACCOMMODATES BLACK STUDENTS.

I THINK IS WHAT THIS ENTAILS.

>> I CAN CERTAINLY TELL THAT THIS HAS BEEN DISTURBING FOR YOU, UNCOMFORTABLE, AND I JUST WANT TO SAY I'M SORRY FOR WHAT YOU'RE HAVING TO GO THROUGH.

I ALSO KNOW FROM WHAT YOU SHARED EARLIER THAT YOU HAD A CHOICE IN CHOOSING UNC CHAPEL HILL, AND YOU'RE CHOOSING TO STAY.

CAN YOU SHARE WHY YOU CHOSE CHAPEL HILL AND WHY YOU CHOOSE TO STAY AND FIGHT?

>> UNC CHAPEL HILL I CAN SAY THAT I WANTED TO GO.

SINCE I WAS IN 3RD GRADE WATCHING THE TAR HEELS WITH THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

I WAS LIKE I WANT TO GO TO THAT SCHOOL.

AND SO EVERYTHING I DO LIKE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL MIDDLE SCHOOL HIGH SCHOOL.

I SAY I WANT TO GO TO CAROLINA, GOING TO CAROLINA AND AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, SENIOR YEAR, I WAS JUST REALLY INFATUATED WITH GOING TO SPELLMAN.

I GOT ACCEPTED I TOURED, I LOVED IT, BUT I SIMPLY COULDN'T AFFORD IT.

BUT STILL UNC WAS MY DREAM SCHOOL AND SO I CAME HERE BECAUSE I WORKED HARD AND DESPITE THIS CAMPUS NOT BEING BUILT FOR PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE ME, I DESERVE TO BE HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY JARA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

AND I WISH YOU THE BEST IN CONTINUING YOUR STUDIES AT UNC CHAPEL HILL AND FIGHTING FOR AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS AS FRIENDLY AND COMFORTABLE FOR ALL STUDENTS.

>> THANK YOU.

THIS PAST WEEK ON THE GLOBAL SCENE UNREST IN THE CARIBBEAN HITS HOME AS MAJOR INCIDENTS IN CUBA AND HAITI CREATE PRESSURE FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN.

IN CUBA, THE LARGEST CITIZEN PROTEST SINCE THE 1960'S ERUPTED OVER CRITICAL SHORTAGES IN FOOD SUPPLIES AND MEDICINE, ECONOMISTS AND EXPERTS BLAME US RIGHT NOW I'D LIKE TO WELCOME CLINICAL PROFESSOR OF LAW AT DUKE UNIVERSITY, JESSE MCCOY AND LA'MESHIA WHITTINGTON OF ADVANCED CAROLINA.

SO GLAD TO HAVE BOTH OF YOU WITH US, LET ME OPEN UP YOU JESSE.

WE KNOW THAT THE HISTORY OF THE U.S. AND CUBA HAS KIND OF GONE - I'LL START FROM OBAMA ERA WE KIND OF LOOSEN RESTRICTIONS AND CUBA IS OPENED UP FOR TRADE WITH AMERICANS AND WE HAVE TOURISM, THEN DURING THE TRUMP AREA ERA THINGS ARE TIGHTENED BACK UP, AND NOW WE'RE IN THE BIDEN ERA.

THOSE TRUMP RESTRICTIONS ARE STILL IN PLACE.

WHERE IS BIDEN ON LIFTING THEM IN ORDER TO CREATE SOME RELIEF.

WHY SHOULD HE, WHY SHOULDN'T HE?

>> SO THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT FOREIGN POLICY SITUATION.

I THINK IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE TRUMP ERA DESIGNATION OF CUBA AS A STATE SPONSOR OF TERRORISM IS SOMETHING THAT CREATED AN EMBARGO, BUT HE ENTERED THIS ON JANUARY 11TH OF 2021, ON HIS WAY OUT THE DOOR.

AND WHAT PEOPLE ALSO SHOULD KNOW IS THERE ARE FORCES IN THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT WHO WOULD LIKE TO SEE CUBA BECOME AN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

SO IN DOING THAT DURING A PANDEMIC JUST A WEEK AFTER THE JANUARY 6TH ASSAULT ON WASHINGTON DC.

IT WOULD SEEM THAT POLITICALLY AT LEAST HE KNEW THIS WOULD CAUSE A PROBLEM FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN.

WHEN THERE'S AN EMBARGO, ANYTHING THAT IS A NECESSITY IS GOING TO BECOME INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE BECAUSE THERE'S NOT A CHANNEL FOR IT TO GET INTO THE ISLAND.

ALSO A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE AMERICAN BUT SEND BACK WHAT THEY CALL REMITTANCES OR MONEY TO FAMILY, IN CUBA THAT STOPS WHEN THERE'S AN EMBARGO.

AND THAT WAS A LARGE PORTION OF WHAT CUBAN PEOPLE WERE RELYING ON TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR NECESSITIES.

SO IT'S A COMBINATION OF 2 FACTORS, ONE IS THE ECONOMY IN CUBA ALREADY HAD CHALLENGES BEFORE THIS EMBARGO HAPPENS.

BUT THESE JUST EXACERBATE THE PROBLEMS THAT ALREADY EXIST.

>> WELL LA'MESHIA, IT JUST SEEMS LOGICAL.

WE CAN SYMPATHIZE WITH THE CUBAN PROTESTERS WHO ARE DESPERATE FOR FOOD MEDICINE AND FREEDOM.

WHY NOT JUST LIFT THE EMBARGO AND MOVE FORWARD?

>> THAT'S RIGHT AND I REALLY AGREE WITH HOW JESSE GAVE US CONTEXT ON THE EMBARGO.

AND SO HERE'S THE THING: BEFORE THE OBAMA ERA OF THE PEACE THAT WAS CREATED OR SEMBLANCE OF PEACE CREATED BETWEEN CUBA, FOR OVER 60 YEARS THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN AT ODDS WITH THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT AND THE FORMER CASTRO REIGN.

THIS HAS BEEN A 60 YEARS PLUS OF THIS EVOLUTION.

UNITED STATES HAD A HAND IN CREATING ECONOMIC UPHEAVAL AND DISRUPTION THROUGH CASTRO REIGN THAT IMPACTED THE LOCAL PEOPLE OF CUBA.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU KNOW THE U.S. ACTUALLY BACKED THE BAY OF PIGS INVASION AND 8 OTHER INVASIONS ON CUBAN SOIL TO OUST FIDEL CASTRO.

SO THE ECONOMIC IMPACT ON COMMUNITIES HAS BEEN A LONG WROUGHT.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHEN COMMUNITIES ARE WAR TORN, REFUGEES THAT IS AN ECONOMIC DEFICIT THAT WE HAVE HAD A MAJOR HAND IN, IN THAT FEUD WITH THE GOVERNMENT TO, AS JESSE SAID, CREATE MORE OF A U.S. COLONIZING IMPACT OF CUBA.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE GOVERNMENT OF CUBA HAS ALSO EXPENDED ITS OWN PEOPLE.

AND SO THAT EMBARGO AND THAT IMPACT OVER 60 YEARS HAS ACTUALLY CUT AND CUBA HAS LOST APPROXIMATELY 130 BILLION DOLLARS IN REVENUE TO THEIR FOLKS.

COVID-19 EXACERBATED THAT BECAUSE OF THE CUT US AMERICANS FROM MAKING THE CHOICE TO VISIT HAVANA AND OTHER AREAS IN A PERSON TO PERSON TRAVEL.

I THINK THAT WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS ALLOWED.

SO YOU'RE CUTTING TOURIST ECONOMIC REVENUE FOR LOCAL FOLKS IN ADDITION TO THE EMBARGO.

YEAH, IT'S TIME TO MOVE THESE TRUMP ERA - AND AS JESSE SAID SO THAT EVEN THE TRUMP ERA THAT WAS ON HIS WAY OUT THE DOOR.

SO WE ALSO HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

>> AND WE HAVE JUST A FEW SECONDS HERE JESSE I WANT TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT OUR BORDERS AND IMMIGRATION.

>> WELL ANY TIME THAT THERE'S ECONOMIC INSTABILITY IN PEOPLE'S HOME COUNTRY, THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO FIND A BETTER LIFE AND A BETTER WAY.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT AMERICA HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR IN ITS POLICIES IN THE CARIBBEAN.

DO NOT COME.

I BELIEVE THAT'S THE DIRECT QUOTE THAT THEY WERE TOLD.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE A CHANGE SOMEWHERE EITHER WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE THE PEOPLE OF CUBA WHO ARE IN A POSITION WHO ARE ASKING FOR A CHANGE IN OUR GOVERNMENT, ORCHESTRATE THE CHANGE THAT THEY WANT TO SEE IN ORDER TO BECOME PART OF AND ECONOMY THAT WILL STABILIZE THEIR ECONOMY, OR WE'RE GOING TO HAVE AN INFLUX OF PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING TO AMERICA, STRICTLY ON HOPES OF A BETTER LIFE AND WE'RE GOING TO BE DEALING WITH ANOTHER ISSUE OF POLITICS WHERE IT COMES TO THE BORDER CRISIS.

>> WELL, WE HAVE TO KEEP OUR EYE ON IT BECAUSE IT DOES IMPACT US, THANK YOU SO MUCH JESSE MCCOY.

LA'MESHIA, PLEASE STAY WITH US WE'RE GOING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HAITI AND WELCOME AN ADDITIONAL GUEST.

>> IN HAITI, THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOVENEL MOISE HAS PROMPTED INTENSIFY DEMANDS FOR BOTH POLITICAL AND FINANCIAL INTERVENTION FROM THE U.S. AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS AFFIRMING SUPPORT.

RIGHT NOW I'D LIKE TO WELCOME TO THE CONVERSATION POLITICAL ANALYST STEVE RAO, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

STEVE, LET'S TALK ABOUT HAITI.

I MEAN THIS IS A COUNTRY THAT FOR DECADES HAS BEEN PLAGUED WITH CHALLENGES FROM POLITICAL CORRUPTION, NATURAL DISASTERS, ECONOMIC INSTABILITY, AND NOW THE FIRST PRESIDENT TO BE ELECTED AND A FAIR ELECTIONS AS A FACT ASSASSINATED.

TELL US WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE IMPACT ON THE U.S.

IN TERMS OF PEOPLE EITHER COMING TO THE BORDER OR JUST US CONTRIBUTING MORE ASSISTANCE TO HAITI?

>> WELL, DEBORAH IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE AND YOU KNOW I THINK FIRST OF ALL I FIND IT INTERESTING YOU KNOW, I WENT TO EMORY UNIVERSITY AND FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER BACK IN THE LATE 90'S WAS WORKING ON DEMOCRACY IN HAITI, OVERSEEING FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS AT THE CARTER CENTER AND I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE HERE WE ARE IN THE YEAR 2021 WITH COMPLETE FAILURE OF DEMOCRACY IN HAITI, SO TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I THINK FIRST OF ALL THE FOREIGN POLICY IN THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO BE STRENGTHENING DEMOCRACY AND THE INSTITUTIONS OF DEMOCRACY IN MANY OF THESE NATIONS, AND WE CAN DO THAT BY PROVIDING MORE HUMANITARIAN AID, LIFTING PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY, MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS, MAKING SURE WE HAVE ADEQUATE HEALTH CARE AND SECURITY FOR THE CITIZENS OF HAITI AND WHAT THAT WILL DO IS ACTUALLY ENABLE THOSE CITIZENS TO STAY IN HAITI BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO BE HAPPY AND LIVE THEIR LIVES IN FREEDOM, AND MANY ARE COMING HERE IN DANGEROUS SITUATIONS THROUGH SMUGGLERS, ON SHIPS, VERY TERRIBLE SITUATIONS TO AMERICA AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO AND IT'S SO UNFORTUNATE THE ASSASSINATION OF MISTER MOISE IS JUST AN EXAMPLE OF HOW FRAGILE THEIR DEMOCRACY IS.

IT'S NOT ENOUGH JUST TO SEND IN A MILITARY PRESENCE, YOU HAVE TO INCREASE THE INSTITUTIONS, THE STRENGTH OF THOSE INSTITUTIONS AND ELECTIONS AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WILL ONLY BE SOLIDIFIED IF THEY HAVE THAT KIND OF SUPPORT.

>> WELL YOU MAKE A REALLY GOOD POINT ABOUT THOUGH THE MILITARY SUPPORT THAT'S BEING ASKED FOR LA'MESHIA, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT KIND OF SUPPORT THE U.S. CAN PROVIDE AT THIS POINT AND WHAT OUR INFLUENCE HAS BEEN ON THE SITUATION THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS.

>> THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT OF OUR INFLUENCE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

WE ARE NAVIGATING AS STEVE HAS ALREADY MENTIONED, THE NECESSARY RELIEF TO ACTUALLY BRING ECONOMIC STABILITY, BUT ALSO OVERHAUL OF THE COUNTRY ITSELF.

SO HISTORICALLY, HAITI WAS ACTUALLY THE FIRST MODERN STATE TO ABOLISH SLAVERY, THE FIRST STATE IN THE WORLD TO BE FORMED FROM SUCCESSFUL REVOLT OF THE LOWER CLASSES.

BUT HERE'S THE THING: THE UNITED STATES WASN'T HAPPY ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE IT CAME AT THE SAME TIME THAT WE AS PEOPLE OF COLOR, BLACK FOLKS, WE'RE STILL ENSLAVED.

SO HISTORIANS EVEN SAY THAT THE UNITED STATES ALSO CONTRIBUTED CERTAIN AMOUNT OF REVENUE FINANCING TO STOP THAT REVOLUTION.

GUESS WHAT?

HAITI WAS STILL SUCCESSFUL.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THE TOP OF THE 1900'S, THE UNITED STATES INVADED HAITI AND WAS ACTUALLY OCCUPYING HAITI FROM LIKE 45 TO 50 YEARS.

SO THAT'S THE TOP OF THE 1900s.

AND WHILE THEY WERE THERE, THEY ACTUALLY CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION OF HAITI TO ALLOW FOR OUTSIDE GOVERNMENTS AND INDIVIDUALS TO BE ABLE TO PURCHASE LAND.

SO SIMILAR TO THE GENTRIFICATION THAT WE'RE FACING IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN A PART OF THE DESTABILIZING OF THE GOVERNMENT AND SO WHEN THE UNITED STATES LEFT THAT OCCUPATION AFTER BEING FORCED BY THE HAITIAN PEOPLE, GUESS WHAT?

IT LEFT THAT COUNTRY IN AN ECONOMIC DEFICIT.

SO THE UNITED STATES BECOMING THE MAIN PROVIDER OF AID TO HAITI WASN'T HAPPENSTANCE.

WE DESTABILIZED A COUNTRY THAT DE- COLONIZED, WE THEN RECOLONIZED THEM, AND THEN MADE THEM DEPEND ON FUNDING FROM US.

THAT'S THE HISTORY OF WHERE WE ARE.

SO WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CLEAR, THAT YES, TO STEVE'S POINT, WE HAVE TO SUPPORT WITH AID THAT SUPPORTS THE DEMOCRACY AND THE OVERALL OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT'S NEEDED TO ACTUALLY SECURE REFORM AND HOUSING AND FUNDING, ESPECIALLY IN THE WAKE OF HURRICANES THAT RAVAGED THAT COUNTRY SO OFTEN IN ADDITION TO THE ECONOMIC RAPTURE THAT HAPPENED IN THE EARLY 1900'S AND BEFORE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR THAT CONTEXT AND ALSO FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVES.

>> TURNING TO RACIAL JUSTICE IN SPORTS FANS OF THE STANDOUT OLYMPIC SPRINTER SHA'CARRI RICHARDSON ARE DISAPPOINTED AFTER THE USA TRACK AND FIELD FEDERATION, NOT ONLY REVOKED HER JUNE 19TH VICTORY, BUT LEFT HER OFF THE LIST OF COMPETITORS FOR THE OLYMPIC GAMES IN TOKYO.

THIS WAS ALL BROUGHT ON AFTER SHE TESTED POSITIVE FOR MARIJUANA ALSO SINCE THAT TIME CONGRESSWOMAN ALEXANDRIA OCASIO CORTEZ AND JAMIE RASKIN HAVE PENNED A PLEA FOR COMPASSION TO THE FEDERATION STATING THAT THE BAN ON MARIJUANA WAS QUOTE "A SIGNIFICANT AND UNNECESSARY BURDEN ON THE ATHLETES CIVIL LIBERTIES" AND THAT QUOTE "THE CONTINUED PROHIBITION OF MARIJUANA WHILE YOUR "ORGANIZATIONS ALLOW RECREATIONAL USE OF ALCOHOL AND "OTHER DRUGS REFLECTS ANTI-DRUG LAWS AND POLICIES THAT HAVE "HISTORICALLY TARGETED BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES WHILE LARGELY CONDONING DRUG USE IN WHITE COMMUNITIES."

I WANT TO JUST OPEN UP WITH YOU LA'MESHIA UNDERSTANDING THE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ARE FULLY KNOWN NOW THAT SHA'CARRI WAS COPING WITH NEWS OF HER MOTHER'S DEATH.

WAS THIS SIMPLY A CASE OF RULES OR IS THERE A PLACE FOR THE ARGUMENT THAT IS OUTLINED IN AOC'S LETTER?

>> RIGHT SO FIRST, YOU KNOW WE DEFINITELY SUPPORT THE MENTAL HEALTH AND LOVE SENDING LOVE TO SHA'CARRI AND PASSING OF HER MOTHER AND HER HEALING PROCESS, BECAUSE THAT IS STILL A PROCESS THAT WILL BE ONGOING.

NEXT TO THE POINT OF RULES AND REGULATIONS.

MARIJUANA.

LET'S CUT IT DOWN.

IT'S LEGAL IN 19 STATES, INCLUDING IN OREGON WHERE MISS RICHARDSON USED THE DRUG RECREATIONALLY.

SO WE TALK ABOUT A QUOTE THAT MLK SAID: "THERE ARE 2 AMERICAS.

"ONE IN WHICH THE RULES DO NOT APPLY FOR CERTAIN FOLKS, "BUT FOR US WE HAVE TO BE 10 TIMES BETTER."

WHEN I SAY US, SAY BLACK AND BROWN AMERICANS.

DESPITE WELLFLEET EQUAL USAGE RATES.

BLACKS ARE 3.73 TIMES MORE LIKELY THAN WHITE FOLKS TO BE ARRESTED FOR MARIJUANA.

WE HAVE RIGHT NOW PEOPLE IN MISSISSIPPI, NORTH CAROLINA, THAT ARE IN JAIL FOR HAVING AN 8TH OF MARIJUANA ON THEM, WHEREAS IN THESE LEGAL STATES, GUESS WHAT?

FOLKS ARE WALKING INTO BOUTIQUES TO HAVE A HIGH CLASS, ALL EXPENSE IPAD LOUNGE TO PURCHASE MARIJUANA OF THEIR CHOICE.

SO WE TALK ABOUT RULES - RULES APPLY TO WHO EXACTLY?

AND TO DEMONIZE AND VILIFY SHA'CARRI, THIS YOUNG 19, 20 YEAR-OLD BLACK WOMAN FOR COPING IN A DISPARATE TIME OF GRIEF IN A LEGAL STATE, WE HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR WHAT POLICY MEANS WHEN IT CAN APPLY TO OUR STATE'S, TO OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, BUT THEN NOT APPLY TO FEDERAL US AGENCIES SUCH AS THE U.S. ANTI-DOPING AGENCY.

IT'S UNITED STATES.

SO FEDERALLY IT SHOULD BE SUPPORTING EITHER WAY TO SUPPORT SHA'CARRI.

>> SO IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS YES THIS WE HAVE THE RULES OUT THERE, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THE RULES AND SHA'CARRI'S SITUATION KIND OF BRINGS TO LIGHT THIS FOR THIS SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW AND T THIS IS WHAT FOLKS WHO WANT TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE ARE SAYING, "HEY, THESE ARE THE RULES, THIS IS THE LAW YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY IT."

SO STEVE, YOU KNOW WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT?

>> WELL, I MEAN FIRST OF ALL I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING, LA SAID I REALLY FEEL FOR SHA'CARRI, I FEEL LIKE SHE'S BEING TARGETED HERE, IT'S UNFAIR AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE CONSISTENT AND FAIR IN THE APPLICATION OF THESE RULES.

BUT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT THE WAY I FEEL ABOUT IT IS THAT I THINK THERE'S A DOUBLE STANDARD HERE.

I MEAN MARIJUANA IS BEING NOT ONLY LEGALIZED IN MANY STATES IT'S BEEN MENTIONED BUT WE IN NORTH CAROLINA WERE CONSIDERING IT, IT'S BEING USED FOR MEDICINAL PURPOSES.

SO YOU KNOW IT'S NOT LIKE SHE WAS USING HEROIN OR CRACK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND SO, >> OR EVEN PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUG.

>> YES, EXACTLY!

>> IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THE LEAGUE DECIDED TO YOU KNOW EXACT ADDITIONAL PENALTY.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO STRIKE HER FROM THE LIST.

>> AND THIS IS AN ATHLETE.

I MEAN I PLAYED COLLEGE TENNIS, BUT I JUST LOVE SPORTS.

AND I LOVE SPORTS BECAUSE IT'S THE ONE THING IN OUR LIVES WHERE WE CAN JUST SEE THESE ATHLETES COME FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE REGARDLESS OF THEIR SKIN COLOR, RACE OR RELIGION, THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION, AND PERFORM AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS FOR THE NATION.

IT'S EMOTIONAL TO ME WHEN I SEE THESE ATHLETES GET MEDALS AND STAND ON THE PODIUM AND HEAR AND SEE OUR PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AND YOU SEE THE TEARS GOING DOWN THE FACE AND YOU THINK OF ALL THE SACRIFICES THAT SHE'S MADE SINCE SHE WAS A YOUNG GIRL.

THIS IS LIFE SHATTERING TO TAKE AWAY THAT DREAM BECAUSE OF SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS A BIT HARSH, IT'S VERY HARSH AND SO I AGREE WITH AOC'S PLEA.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO GET THEM TO REINSTATE HER BACK ON THE TEAM IF WE CAN, AND MOVING FORWARD HAVE RULES THAT ARE CONSISTENT.

THAT ARE IN LINE WITH THE CURRENT THE POLICIES OF THE TIMES.

>> YEAH, AND YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO WRAP WITH THE QUESTION ABOUT JUST MAKING THINGS MORE EQUITABLE IN THIS SPACE PERIOD BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN BLACK WOMEN ATHLETES FACING PERSECUTION TO A GREATER DEGREE THAN OTHER ATHLETES IN THIS SPACE AND IN ALL SPACES REALLY LA'MESHIA.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO WHEN WE SEE THE SPORTS WORLD, LET'S BE VERY CLEAR.

THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO DON'T AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT IT'S UNPAID LABOR FOR COLLEGIATE SPORTS.

THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC FOR ANOTHER TIME, BUT WE USE OUR BODIES AT THE LACK OF INVESTMENT OR IT'S ILLEGAL OR AGAINST THE RULES TO RECEIVE BOOSTERS OR SUPPORT.

WE SEEING THAT THE SPORTS WORLD HAS REALLY TREATED BLACK ATHLETES AND PEOPLE OF COLOR AS GLADIATORS PROPERTY TO BE OWNED, SEEN AND NOT HEARD.

WHEN WE HEARD THE CRITIQUE AFTER THE STATE-SANCTIONED VIOLENCE, LEBRON SPOKE UP.

THEY WERE LIKE "WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR YOUR POLITICS WE WANT TO JUST SEE YOU PLAY" WELL, WE ARE POLITICAL BECAUSE THIS NATION MADE US POLITICAL.

SO WE SEE THE IMPACT SHA'CARRI WE ALSO HAVE TAKEN NOTE THAT WE OUGHT TO BRIANNA McNEAL WHO TOOK AN OLYMPIC GOLD IN THE 100 METER HURDLE 2016, SHE HAD A DOCTOR DOCUMENTED MEDICAL PROCEDURE RELATED TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, SHE WAS DISQUALIFIED THIS YEAR AS WELL BECAUSE GUESS WHAT?

SHE MISSED A DRUG TEST BECAUSE SHE HAD AN ABORTION AND HAD TO BE OUT.

THERE WERE TWO 18 YEAR-OLD NAMIBIAN OLYMPIC HOPEFULS WHO ARE GUESS WHAT?

DISQUALIFIED FOR HAVING TOO MUCH TESTOSTERONE?

YOU'RE POLICING BLACK WOMEN'S BODIES BY TELLING THEM THAT WHAT IS NATURALLY WITHIN THEM DISQUALIFIES THEM FOR A RACE IN WHICH THEY HAVE TRAINED?

TO STEVE'S POINT THAT THIS IS DEVASTATING.

SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE BAN ON THE SWIM CAPS, THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF BANNING OUR BODIES.

SILENCING OUR SKILLS, OUR GIFTS, OUR TALENTS AND OUR ABILITIES TO DO WHAT WE DO BEST LIKE SIMONE BILES, AND THAT'S DOMINATE AND CREATE HISTORIC FEATS AND SO RIGHT NOW IN NORTH CAROLINA ACROSS THE NATION, WERE FIGHTING FOR THE CROWN ACT.

TO ACTUALLY MAKE -- IT IS STILL ILLEGAL TO HAVE OUR NATURAL HAIR IN JOB EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES.

>> WE KNOW THAT THERE IS A CASE RIGHT THAT COMES RIGHT OUT OF HILLSIDE HIGH SCHOOL YOUNG LADY HAD TO TO HAVE HER BRAIDS CUT DURING A SOFTBALL GAME BECAUSE THE UMPIRE SAID HE COULDN'T SEE HER NUMBER THAT JUST INFURIATES ME.

THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO SAY, BUT LA'MESHIA WHITTINGTON THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS ALWAYS AND STEVE RAO AS WELL WE APPRECIATE YOU BOTH BEING HERE, THANK YOU.

>> I WANT TO THANK TODAY'S GUESTS FOR JOINING US, WE INVITE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE HASHTAG BLACK ISSUES FORUM.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR FULL EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/ BLACKISSUESFORM, OR LISTEN AT ANY TIME ON APPLE I TUNES, SPOTIFY OR GOOGLE PODCAST.

FOR BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

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