
The Future for Small Businesses and Minority Entrepreneurs
Season 39 Episode 16 | 26m 46sVideo has Closed Captions
The outlook for NC small businesses and how the Trump administration could impact their communities.
Explore the outlook for NC small businesses and how the Trump administration could impact business communities statewide. Also, kick off the holidays with a small business spotlight. Host Kenia Thompson speaks with Chisa Pennix-Brown, chief curator of Give It to the People, which crafts custom events for businesses; and Kevin S. Dick, president and CEO of Carolina Small Business Development Fund.

The Future for Small Businesses and Minority Entrepreneurs
Season 39 Episode 16 | 26m 46sVideo has Closed Captions
Explore the outlook for NC small businesses and how the Trump administration could impact business communities statewide. Also, kick off the holidays with a small business spotlight. Host Kenia Thompson speaks with Chisa Pennix-Brown, chief curator of Give It to the People, which crafts custom events for businesses; and Kevin S. Dick, president and CEO of Carolina Small Business Development Fund.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, this holiday season, we're shining a spotlight on the power of minority owned small businesses.
Join us as we explore the outlook for North Carolina small businesses and how a new administration could impact business communities statewide.
Plus, you don't wanna miss our special holiday feature where we'll introduce you to an incredible small business owner who's bringing creativity, culture and heart to holiday offerings.
Coming up next, make sure you stay with us.
- [Announcer] Quality Public Television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.
[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum, I'm Kenia Thompson.
While as 2025 approaches, minority-owned small businesses find themselves navigating new political waters, asking, what does a Trump administration mean for minority entrepreneurs?
Potential changes, challenges and opportunities could significantly reshape the future of small businesses across the nation.
To share insight on the impacts that they foresee and the strategies they believe that will keep minority businesses thriving, we welcome our guests to the show for the conversation.
With us today, we have Chisa Pennix-Brown, chief curator of Give It to The People and specializing in crafting unique experiences for businesses seeking to thrive and connect with one another.
Joining her we have Kevin Dick, president and CEO of the North Carolina Small Business Development Fund, providing capital, technical assistance and policy research to light the way for small businesses in North Carolina.
Welcome to the show.
- Thank you.
- Good morning.
- Yes, looking fabulous this day.
Ready for this conversation.
I know that you both are very involved in the small business ecosystem here in North Carolina and I would love for you Chisa to start.
Let folks know about Give It to The People, why you created it, and what's the purpose behind it.
- So give it to the people is a company that my husband and I created out of COVID and we were home and I was already teaching for the small business centers throughout North Carolina, doing a lot of counseling during that time to make sure the businesses could stay in business.
And while he was home, he was helping me do the things, right?
And so when we came up with the concept of Give it To the People, it was what can we give to other people?
- Yeah.
- And so we put it together.
We said, these are some of the things coming out of COVID that we really wanted to do.
And looking at our skill sets, curated conferences, focusing on mental wealth, which is people getting their mind right and their money right, was one of the things that we felt like we could give to people.
And so we started with a podcast that was called Give It to the People, and then we just felt like that was a natural progression for the name of the business.
And so now what we do is we do conferences all over the state and we still do some technical assistance, but our main thing is really to work on the ecosystem, like you said, to bring people together and to work between those business service organizations, entrepreneur service organizations, and bring those entrepreneurs together so that they have some type of connection.
- Yeah, and I've had the pleasure of attending a few of the events and you truly do bring people together.
Kevin, I wanna bring you into the conversation.
You've been on the show before and you've highlighted some of the challenges that small businesses have faced, especially minority small businesses.
Talk about the work that you have been doing since we've last met and what are kind of the anticipations going into 2025?
- Sure, thank you Kenia and thank you for having me back.
It's great to be back.
So Carolina Small Business Development Fund works with small businesses primarily in North Carolina.
We are a community development financial institution or a CDFI.
There are about, I believe 1200 such organizations nationwide that really focus on bringing capital into underserved communities in some way, shape or form.
Some through affordable housing, financial literacy or small business real estate.
In our case, we cater to small businesses generally between one and 19 employees, less than five million in annual revenue.
The three pillars of our work are really financial capital, knowledge capital or technical assistance as we like to call it.
And then economic development and policy and research work, really delving into how small businesses are impacting North Carolina's economy and also how events like Hurricane Helene and the pandemic and so forth can really have adverse impacts on small businesses and why there's a case for public policy advocacy.
And so a lot of what we've been doing has been really continuing to manage our revolving loan fund, which is basically the partnership that we have with mostly private sector banks who are looking to get resources into underserved communities.
But really with loan amounts that they wouldn't typically do.
- Right.
- Right, and so, they really pass those monies through us.
And so we have continued to do lending, but what is really important about our lending is that it is accompanied by technical assistance.
Because it's not just about, so really, like Shesa said, given the coaching and counseling to explain the small businesses, not just how to access the money, but how to manage it once you get it.
- How do you, you know, work with QuickBooks.
How do you understand cash flow statements, things like that.
- Right.
I'd love to open this question to both of you.
The statuses of small minority owned businesses today, are you seeing people still thriving?
You mentioned Hurricane Helene, we did see an uptick since the pandemic of people opening up businesses, right.
But how has that either sustained or are we seeing a decline?
Or what has your experience been?
Shesa, will come back to you.
- Well, I would say when you start to look at businesses in general dynamic, right?
Like they're making strides to be better.
And so businesses that were in existence prior to Covid and that are still here are seeing a big shift because there were things that you could do pre covid, things that you probably changed because of covid, and then now I think it's kind of getting back to some sense of normalcy, but there's another shift that's getting ready to happen.
And so if people are starting businesses now, there are rules and things that are about to be or are currently in place that you didn't have to deal with previously.
So when you talk about beneficial ownership information report, a lot of businesses don't realize if you started this business this year that you need to file that report by the time that January gets here.
So that, this way you're not fined because of the US Treasury putting this into place.
So I think that typically what's happening with businesses is they're looking for the resources that they need in order to stay in business.
And technology is kind of helping shift that forward.
So between that, but I think there's also still a need and a desire for people to have community and for people to find places where they have like-minded individuals that understand what they're going through.
And so when you talk about organizations like Carolina, we've worked with them previously with my previous company to do technical assistance and to do the marketing.
But now with give it to the people, we're working with them, you know, to do some other things which will help people to get access to that capital.
And so what we've seen is it's not just about, okay, well I need the access to capital.
It's also about the fact of I need to be a good steward of the money.
I need to have things in place beforehand.
So for us, when we're talking about some of the education that we're putting forward, it's like, let's learn what you need to do first.
So even if a person were to say something like, well, I need a intern.
What do you need an intern to do?
- Yeah.
- Right.
- You know, and so you have to have things together first and then be able to approach it.
And then even from like a perspective of, you know, they have the money to lend to people, but then they also still need partners that are in the community that can help people get ready for the money before they come to them.
- Right.
- Because there's a process that has to go through things.
And so I think businesses need to look forward to applications being a big thing.
That can be a hindrance for people because you have to have all of these things together.
I think it's gonna be more movement towards certifications.
A lot of people are looking at certain government contracts, and so it's kind of shifting people to where they're like, well, where's the money at?
- Right.
- And even though a lot of our things make money, but we may not be in the place to be able to hire people.
So being able to build that capacity, I think is something that we really need to work forward in all of the businesses to be able to allow us to be able to sustain.
- Yeah, anything you wanna add there?
- I think Shesa covered that very well.
I mean, I think that, again, it's challenges related to knowhow.
- Yeah.
- We have a lot, particularly in Black, the Black community and communities of color.
We have probably disproportionately high numbers who have started businesses and, you know, related to restaurants or per what we call personal services, barbershops, beauty salons, other retail trade.
Now technology and the gig economy have changed that as well.
So people are starting there too.
But the bottom line is that you have a lot of people who are really good at their craft, but that doesn't mean that they know how to manage cash flow.
- Exactly.
- Right.
And so how does the entrepreneurial ecosystem or an organization like Carolina Small Business Development Fund fill that gap?
And so, you know, Shesa has talked about the collaborations that our organizations have had, and yeah, I wanna shout out our Director of Business Solutions, Reginald Jones, our Business Solutions Officer, Shesa's best bud, Madison Potter.
I'm mentioning them specifically because they have said a couple of things at events like what Shesa described that have really been very simple and very poignant.
You know, so one of the challenges that businesses have, and this is by no means any disparagement to accountants, right?
- Mm hm.
Right.
- Any business needs a good accountant.
- Right.
- But one of the things that we sort of have challenges with, is businesses that have... We have to ask them, do you have a tax strategy or growth strategy?
- Mm.
- What do I mean by that?
And Reggie has said, we see businesses step over dollars to take pennies.
- Wow.
- Oh.
- Because what they're inclined to do when they need to, you know, deliver that document on April 15th, is minimize their earnings, maximize losses.
- Yeah.
- So they pay fewer taxes.
- Mm hm.
- Well, for an organization like us, we can't look at a document like that and be inclined to lend money, because we need to see profitability.
- Right.
- Right?
So you're stepping over dollars to get pennies.
- Yeah.
- I'm gonna get, "I want a $2,000 tax return," but I could have gotten a $200,000 loan to push my business forward.
- Mm hm.
- Madison has often said, you know, I work with small businesses.
And as much as you know, a very significant part of our business model and revenue streams is to lend.
- Yeah.
- So we want to lend, - Right.
- But we encounter businesses where we have to say, you know, you don't really need a loan, you need a budget.
- Mm hm.
- Mm hm.
- So it's that know-how.
- Right.
- It's understanding capital, not just in the typical way you would deem capital, money.
It's also knowledge capital, you know, technical assistance.
- Right.
- And social capital.
Not just who you know, but who knows you.
- Yeah.
- Mm hm.
- I wanna kind of go to what we're looking towards, right?
During Vice President Kamala's run, we heard her talk a lot about small businesses.
We even had Durham Mayor, Williams, who talked at the DNC about North Carolina having so many small business application for grants and that we're thriving here.
And we well know now that President-elect Donald Trump will be in office come January.
And we're not hearing as much positive talk on the small business end, right?
We're hearing talks about increasing tariffs, talks about impacts that's gonna really hit the pockets more, I think, on small business owners.
What are your thoughts around that?
And how do you think that's gonna impact North Carolina specifically?
- Well, I would say prepare yourself, right?
Like the biggest thing is... And I looked at this when he took office previously.
The goal is to make more money, right?
And so we have to look at scale.
And I know when people look at the word scale, often they look at trying to scale up.
A lot of people may need to scale back.
- Mm.
- You may need to, if you're that food truck, you know, to scale back your menu.
You may need to look at what you're actually offering and find out are there alternatives.
You may need to buy in bulk, so that this way, you know, you can make things cheaper for yourself.
- Right.
- And so when I think about, you know, what we're doing, like even the way that I would say we were able to scale our company, even though it's myself and my husband, the biggest thing was, I can't make another me.
So what can I do if I can't make another me?
If my company is not the type of company that would be looked at as, you know, a VC would look at it.
'Cause that's one of the hot terms that's coming out right now that people are paying attention to.
- What's VC?
For our audience.
- Yes, so the VC would be when they are investing into your company, right?
And so when you look at that, you know, the biggest thing is people are not ready for certain things.
And so you have to look at where your business actually is and then where you can take it.
And so if I know that my company is not the type of company that they would invest in, because we're not product based, we're not a technology company, we're service based.
- Mm hm.
- And so that means you have to actually perform the service.
Then how can we scale up?
So one way that we looked at doing things was we're starting a membership that'll start in January.
And so that membership is here to help people get access to resources.
Because there's not one place that you can find a lot of the resources that you need.
So if you were to say, "Look, I'm gonna start a business here."
You have a hundred counties in North Carolina.
- Mm hm.
- And everybody doesn't do things the same way.
You have multiple tax rates in North Carolina.
So if you're in Mecklenburg County, you're gonna pay a different tax rate than you'll pay if you're in Guilford.
You know, and so all of those things are things that are not standardized.
So when we talk about scale, the way to scale is to raise prices, right?
Which may mean you have to change the clientele.
- Mm hm.
- And it may be difficult for people to kind of understand that, but if you've had so much experience at a certain time, you should be able to raise your prices, right?
And so if you consider the tariffs, it's not a choice.
You will have to raise prices.
- Right.
- Because things simply cost more.
And so then you have to pass that on to your customers, or you're gonna, you know, go outta business.
So, in us being able to say, well, what can we do from give it to the people is creating this membership, Give It, Get It membership, is saying, well, look, let's put these resources in place.
So I think of an analogy.
Like, let's say you have a king size bed, right?
But they give you a twins size sheet.
Okay?
That twin size sheet is not gonna fit over that whole king size bed.
- Right.
- So what you have is, you're having a coverage problem.
You don't have the capacity that you need, but you have king size problems.
And so you have to take into consideration that if resources are spread all over the place and you have a problem finding it, a lot of times it's those five W's, the who, what, where, when, and why.
And then throw in how are you gonna get to what you need to?
So, being able to do that, and being able to find the money.
But also who you need to talk to, how you need to do things differently, and you know, just piggybacking on what you're saying, a funding strategy.
- Right?
- As opposed to just give me money.
- Yeah.
- You have to realize what your capacity is.
- Few minutes here before we go to our small business feature of the week.
Any anticipated, outside of the tariffs, law changes, policy changes that you see coming down the pipeline that may pose even additional threats than what Chisa has outlined here?
- Well, unfortunately we've started to see some, some lawsuits.
We've started to see court cases that certainly suggest, and a full out assault on diversity, equity, and inclusion.
- [Kenia] Right.
- That hasn't just been in the public realm, it's been corporate sector, and so I think we have to brace ourselves for those things to accelerate under the new presidential administration, but you know, we, we, it's about, it's about bracing yourselves and like Chisa said, preparing yourself, right?
- [Kenia] Yeah.
- To be resilient, but I also don't want to dismiss the fact that even a lot of diversity, equity, and inclusion issues can be left to states.
- Hm.
- We have a gubernatorial administration that is going to be a continuance of, well, gubernatorial administration in conjunction with the legislative branch being a continuance of North Carolina's Purpleness.
- [Kenia] Right.
- And so there, there have been a lot of things, you know, Carolina Small Business Development Fund was a participant in the administration of the Retool NC program where there were grants provided to historically unutilized businesses.
We've run grant programs and loan programs for municipalities where significant percentages of the grants or loans have gone to businesses owned by people of color.
- [Kenia] Right.
- And so I say all that to say that don't underestimate the state and local components.
- That's a good point.
- To, to opportunities that businesses have.
We as an organization are really trying to position ourselves as an access to capital provider for the supply chain.
You know, North Carolina has had a record growth in business recruitment and large companies moving into this, this state over the last few years.
Well, when Apple, Google, you know, Boom Supersonic in Greensboro, you name it, when they are redeveloping a site, who do you think redevelops that site?
It's the small truckers, the, the dirt haulers, the surveyors, you know, so the, it's small professional services companies and small construction companies.
They, they need loans for new equipment.
They need loans for working capital.
They don't need $8 million loans necessarily.
They need $250,000 loans.
- [Kenia] Right.
- And so that's where an organization like us comes in, but we know that we're operating in an environment that has some, you know, uncertainty relative to, to politics, and at the, at the end of the day, some of the core principles that Chisa mentioned, businesses just have to stay true to that.
- [Kenia] Yeah.
- Rely upon the entrepreneurial ecosystem, understand when there's a need for new financial capital.
There's always a need for technical assistance capital, always.
- Always.
- Regardless of what stage the business is in.
- Yeah.
- And, and just, you know, try to be resilient and, and, pardon the pun, but really work through the storm.
- Yeah.
I'm gonna pause you there because we have a small business that I want to highlight today.
- [Kevin] Great.
- We are kicking off our small business holiday feature, and our business for today is a, a friend of mine, a friend of the panel as well.
I want you to imagine an evening where every dish is crafted with intention, each course tells a story, and the entire experience feels like a gift in itself.
From seasonal ingredients to personal touches, Chef Precious, Queen Precious-Jewel Zabriskie offers meals that are far more than food, they're memories waiting to be made.
Here's this week's small business holiday feature.
Take a look.
- My name is Queen Precious-Jewel Zabriskie.
I am the owner and executive chef, spice purveyor of Indulge Catering, LLC, as well as Indulgent essential spices and also Indulgent experiences.
Indulge Catering has been around for 10 years, and in this 10th year, we've decided to kinda do some things different, transition, and I've decided to really move into more of my personal chef and private chef experiences.
So the premise of Indulge Catering has always been about healthy, flavorful options.
So in 2012, I had weight loss surgery and I was 386 pounds.
I was borderline everything, meaning diabetes, my knees were hurt, the whole nine yards, and I was rolling into a size 32 and my doctor said to me, "Okay, the way you're gonna succeed in this is by taking the chicken, boiling the chicken, and drinking the broth."
And I told him he's lost his mind.
I said, "I'm going to fail."
I said, "You don't understand how important food is in the black community, and flavor is in the black community."
So one of the things that I wanted to do was take everything that I loved to eat growing up in the Bronx and make it healthy.
My grandma Marian would cook this macaroni and cheese when growing up for Thanksgiving that we would pretty much fight over the pans and who would get the crust around the edges.
And so I'd like to share that with people.
I do not fry anything.
So if I say I do chicken and waffles, trust me, it's an oven fried chicken and waffle that you would not even know.
So it's gonna be holiday season soon.
I wanna make sure that you have all your healthy holiday flair, but with my spin on it.
Indulgent experiences, taking me, allowing me to come and take over your kitchen, but even more than just as a personal chef, I will curate a menu that can either be a surprise for you and your guest, a menu that is regional, depending upon where you would like to fly me out to, or just something that I'm like, "You know what?
I think I wanna cook this today.
Would you like to come and have me take over your kitchen?"
Everything that you get is curated just by me and made just by me fresh for you.
Our holiday menu features a glazed turkey breast that I do a ginger cinnamon sugar glaze on that I fire up for you.
Also does feature the lamb chops I call the lamb T-bones, actually, little small lamb.
It also has a lot of vegan options.
So we do a vegan sausage ziti.
I do a Turkey ziti as well.
These are all items that can be purchased on our website, indulge-catering.com.
You could also follow me on social media.
Chef QueenPreciousJewel, IndulgeCateringNC on Instagram and Facebook.
And this way you can also link that way and purchase your meals.
We will offer delivery this year as well as pickup in the Franklinton, North Carolina, which is where my kitchen is, and also in Durham, North Carolina.
A lot of my seasonings have turmeric and cumin.
And those are the type of seasonings and spices that I want you to use.
Health is important.
You shouldn't eat to live, you should live to eat, love to eat.
And so I want you to have what I call an indulgent flavor bomb, which is where you taste the food and you taste my love and my joy, and the fact that it's healthy and it didn't have all this butter and gook and stuff in it.
I'm able to actually eat this food.
I feel the nourishments, I feel the love, and maybe I can go run a marathon.
Maybe not, but maybe you can.
I believe that this is a blessed journey that God has given me, and I've been stepping in faith and I've been stepping in my gift.
And in doing that, I cook on Instagram.
And lo and behold, Gordon Ramsey's team found me and I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're lying, no."
But they found me.
So I was on the first season of "Gordon Ramsey's Food Stars" that aired on Fox with his production company.
And he chose my company, Indulgent Essential Spices.
He handpicked me to come out and compete.
And I was one of 15 to make it on air, and then I made it to top nine.
So it was so cool to be able to cook and have him taste my food and say, "You know what?
I see your flavor.
I like this right here."
It showed me that I, Chef Queen Precious Jewel, can actually do this thing and stand in my light and shine.
And it's okay.
- Y'all, that food was so delicious.
I know that you've had her food, Chisa.
- Not only have I had her food, we helped them with their marketing during Covid time.
So I'm proud of them.
And then they were the piece de resistance at the BLK Biz Summit because I believe in nourishing people the same way, we had the same vision.
So they definitely helped make the BLK Biz Summit, this third one that we did this year, amazing.
- Yeah.
I know Kevin, you have not had a chance yet.
- [Kevin] I thought you promised something.
- I'm sorry.
I know, we gotta do samples.
- It's okay.
- Even production backstage said the same, right?
We wanna make sure- - I wanna indulge.
- Yes.
And you wanna indulge and we want our viewers to indulge.
You can definitely find them at indulge-catering.com.
Wanna get that right.
Make sure you join us each week because this is the start of our holiday season, Small Business Highlights.
And so we wanna make sure that you come back every week and meet our guests.
So we thank you for watching.
We thank the two of you for being here.
- [Chisa] Thank you.
- Thank you.
- And if you want more content like this, make sure that you follow us and engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag BlackIssuesForum.
You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.
I'm Kenia Thompson.
See you next time.
[upbeat music] - [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.