>> UP NEXT ON A SPECIAL BLACK ISSUES FORUM, THE VERDICT IS IN ON THE TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN, AND THE NATION IS RESPONDING.

OUR PANEL WEIGHS IN ON WHAT THIS MEANS FOR POLICING AS WE KNOW IT AND THE FUTURE OF EQUAL JUSTICE.

STAY WITH US.

♪ >> HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF BLACK ISSUES FORUM, I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

IT WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO ON MAY 25th, 2020 THAT DISTURBING VIDEO OF A POLICE OFFICER PRESSING HIS KNEE AGAINST THE NECK OF A MAN ON THE STREET HIT SOCIAL MEDIA AND SET OFF A WAVE OF PROTESTS OVER WHAT RESULTED IN THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.

NOW A JUDGE AND JURY HAD DECIDED WHAT HAPPENED ON THAT DAY.

>> MEMBERS OF THE JURY I UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE A VERDICT.

>> JURORS IN THE HENNEPIN COUNTY MINNESOTA COURTROOM DELIBERATED 10 HOURS OVER MONDAY AND TUESDAY TO REACH A VERDICT IN FORMER POLICE OFFICER DEREK CHAUVIN'S TRIAL FOR KILLING GEORGE FLOYD.

>> WE THE JURY IN THE ABOVE ENTITLED MATTER AS TO COUNT ONE UNINTENTIONAL SECOND-DEGREE MURDER WHILE COMMITTING A FELONY, FIND THE DEFENDANT GUILTY.

THIS VERDICT AGREED TO THIS 20TH DAY OF APRIL 2021 AT 1:44 PM.

>> DEREK CHAUVIN IS CONVICTED OF 3 STATE MURDER CHARGES, SECOND-DEGREE UNINTENTIONAL MURDER, THIRD-DEGREE MURDER AND SECOND-DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER.

AGGRAVATING FACTORS COULD INCREASE SENTENCING TO 75 YEARS.

>> IT'S A HUGE DAY FOR THE WORLD AND WE'RE FINALLY STARTING TO SEE -- WE WALKED AROUND WITH EYES WIDE SHUT FOR A LONG TIME SO THEY'RE STARTING TO OPEN TODAY.

>> CROWDS CHEERED AS THE VERDICT WAS READ.

[CROWD CHEERING] >> AMERICA HAS A LONG HISTORY OF SYSTEMIC RACISM, BLACK AMERICANS AND BLACK MEN IN PARTICULAR HAVE BEEN TREATED THROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF OUR HISTORY AS LESS THAN HUMAN.

BLACK MEN, ARE FATHERS AND BROTHERS.

>> SYSTEM RACISM IS A STAIN ON OUR NATION'S SOUL.

THE KNEE ON THE NECK OF JUSTICE FOR BLACK AMERICANS.

THE FOUND FEAR AND TRAUMA, THE PAIN THE EXHAUSTION, THAT BLACK AND BROWN AMERICANS EXPERIENCE EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> DEREK CHAUVIN SENTENCING IS EXPECTED IN 8 WEEKS.

>> I'D LIKE TO WELCOME MARY C. CURTIS A JOURNALIST AND HOST OF THE EQUAL TIME PODCAST, DOCTOR ERIKA K. WILSON, AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AT UNC SCHOOL OF LAW, AND COMMUNITY ACTIVIST GREEAR WEBB CO-FOUNDER OF YOUNG AMERICANS PROTESTS.

GREEAR I WANT TO START OFF WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE INVOLVED IN THE PROTESTS OF SUMMER 2020 AND I WANT TO KNOW WHAT DOES THIS GUILTY VERDICT MEAN TO YOU AND TO YOUR CAUSE?

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME HERE TODAY DEBORAH.

I THINK THAT THIS IS ONE SMALL STEP TOWARD ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT I DON'T SEE THIS AS TRUE JUSTICE.

THE FLOYD FAMILY AS WELL AS OTHER FAMILIES THAT HAVE HAD VICTIMS OF POLICE BRUTALITY SAY THE SAME THING, BECAUSE THIS PERSON, BECAUSE GEORGE FLOYD IS NO LONGER WITH US NO LONGER WALKING THE EARTH, IT'S NOT JUSTICE, BUT IT IS A SMALL MEASURE IN ACCOUNTABILITY, AND SO I THINK THAT THIS IS WHAT SO MANY OF US SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE SO MANY IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR OVER A YEAR.

IT'S VERY SAD AND TROUBLING TO ME THAT IT TOOK A YEAR, IT TOOK A WORLDWIDE VIDEO TAKEN BY A 17 YEAR-OLD YOUNG WOMAN FOR FOLKS TO REALIZE THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED RIGHT NOW AND SO WHILE I AM PLEASED WITH THE GUILTY VERDICTS IN THIS CASE, THAT'S NOT GOING TO PREVENT THE NEXT MURDER FROM OCCURRING.

SO I'M NOW FOCUSED ON AND CONTINUE TO FOCUS ON SYSTEMIC EXCHANGE AND THE STRUCTURAL CHANGE THAT'S NEEDED SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO POLICING IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> WE'LL DEFINITELY TALK ABOUT WHAT IS TO COME IN THE FUTURE, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN MARY, SO MANY REACTIONS THAT THE CAMERAS HAVE SHOWN US WHAT HAVE YOU TAKEN STOCK OF IN THE REACTIONS, AND HOW DO YOU SUMMARIZE?

>> I AGREE WITH GREEAR THAT PEOPLE.

YES, THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF EXCITEMENT AND A LITTLE BIT OF CELEBRATION.

BUT IT'S TEMPERED WITH THE FACT THAT OF OF COURSE MISTER FLOYD IS STILL DECEASED AND THE FACT THAT EVEN THOUGH THE PROSECUTION MADE THE CASE AS THEY HAD TO THAT IT WAS ABOUT ONE OFFICER AND NOT ABOUT POLICING IN GENERAL POLICE, I THINK EVERYONE REALIZES THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF POLICE REFORM.

DURING THE TRIAL, WE EVEN SAW THAT CLOSE BY, DANTE WRIGHT, THERE WAS A POLICE KILLING DURING THIS PARTICULAR TRIAL.

AND EVERY DAY IT HAS HAPPENED.

AND ALSO FOLKS REALIZE HOW RARE THIS IS.

THIS WAS A CASE YOU HAD A BLACK OF ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE STATE AND THE PROSECUTION REALLY ARGUE THAT IN A VERY STRONG WAY AND YOU HAVE FELLOW POLICE OFFICERS TESTIFYING AGAINST THIS OFFICER, WHICH YOU RARELY SEE, AND IT WASN'T A SPLIT SECOND DECISION WHICH IS THE USUAL EXCUSE THAT YOU HAD THIS VIDEO BY THIS BRAVE YOUNG WOMAN.

I HOPE SHE'S GETTING SOME HELP BECAUSE THAT IS SO TRAUMATIZING OF 9 MINUTES AND 29 SECONDS OF TORTURE.

SO THIS WAS UNIQUE.

AND THE QUESTION AS GREEAR HAS SAID IS WHAT IS GOING THOUGH ON MOVING FORWARD, AND YOU DID HAVE THE PROTEST.

I HAVE TO COMMEND ALL THE PEOPLE INCLUDING YOUNG FOLKS LIKE GREEAR AND MY SON, WHO DID TAKE OUT TO THE STREETS AND DEMAND JUSTICE.

SO YES, PEOPLE ARE SAYING YES, THIS IS GOOD.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME IF THIS DID NOT END IN A GUILTY VERDICT, I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DEVASTATING BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE MEANT THAT PRETTY MUCH POLICE COULD GET AWAY WITH ANYTHING.

>> WELL IN THIS CASE IT DID RESULT IN A GUILTY VERDICT, A GUILTY VERDICT ON 3 COUNTS, AND PROFESSOR WILSON, I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN, IF YOU WILL WHAT DOES THE GUILTY VERDICT ON ALL 3 COUNTS REALLY MEAN AND HOW IMPORTANT WAS IT THAT THE JURY REACHED A GUILTY VERDICT ON ALL 3 COUNTS?

>> I'LL PICK UP ON WHAT MARY SAID IN TERMS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF GUILTY VERDICT BEING HAD HERE, AND MANY WAYS I SAY THAT THIS CAKE CASE TESTED THE REAL OUTER LIMITS OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM IF THERE WAS NOT A GUILTY VERDICT HERE ONE WOULD HAVE TO QUESTION WHEN THERE WOULD EVER BE ONE GIVEN THE EGREGIOUS NATURE OF THE FACTS IN THIS CASE.

IN TERMS OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THERE BEING A GUILTY VERDICT ON ALL 3 CHARGES, IF YOU RECALL BACK TO WHEN THE PROSECUTOR HAD THE COURAGE FRANKLY TO EVEN CHARGE WHAT WHAT THEY CALL SECOND-DEGREE UNINTENTIONAL MURDER PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT HE OVERCHARGED AND THAT THIS WAS MANSLAUGHTER NOT MURDER.

BUT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE PROSECUTOR ADDED THAT SECOND-DEGREE UNINTENTIONAL MURDER CHARGE ALONG WITH THE 3RD DEGREE MURDER CHARGE IN ALONG WITH THE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE BECAUSE WE WANTED A STATEMENT FROM THE JURY THAT THIS WAS MURDER.

SO THE SECOND-DEGREE MURDER CHARGE ALLOWED THE JURY TO FIND THAT OFFICER CHAUVIN ASSAULTED MISTER FLOYD AND IN THE CONTEXT OF THAT ASSAULT, ACTUALLY MURDERED HIM.

IT'S THAT ESSENTIALLY A FELONY MURDER.

AND SO WITH THE THE 3RD DEGREE MURDER CHARGE, IT ALLOWED THE JURY TO FIND THAT HE ACTED WITH A DEPRAVED MIND OR HEART IN DOING SO, AND THEN WITH THE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE TO ALLOW THE JURY TO FIND THAT HE WAS CULPABLY NEGLIGENT IN HIS ACTIONS.

SO ALL OF THOSE THINGS MATTER IN TERMS OF WHAT THE JURY WAS ABLE TO LOOK AT THE VIDEO OF THE FACTS AND TO MAKE A FINDING FRANKLY OF ALL 3 OF THESE THINGS.

>> GREEAR I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THE TRIAL AND THE PROCEDURES?

IT'S BEEN A LOT THAT HAD TO UNFOLD IN ORDER TO REACH THIS GUILTY VERDICT.

WHAT STOOD OUT FOR YOU?

>> YOU KNOW I ACTUALLY TWEETED THE OTHER DAY DEBORAH, I JUST SAID THAT IT WAS AGONIZING.

EVEN WAITING YESTERDAY FOR THOSE FEW HOURS IT WAS AGONY BECAUSE FOR SO MANY OF US WHO ARE BLACK IN THE UNITED STATES WE DIDN'T KNOW WHICH WAY THIS WAS GOING TO GO.

FOR MANY OF US WE MAY HAVE LEANS TOWARD GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY EVEN.

BUT WE WERE UNSURE AND THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO BE UNSURE IN A CASE LIKE THIS IS AGONIZING AND TRAUMATIZING IN AND OF ITSELF.

AND SO AS I WATCHED THE PROCEEDINGS, I WAS VERY PLEASED WITH HOW THE PROSECUTION HANDLED THE CASE AS SOMEONE THAT WANTS TO GO INTO LAW OR MAYBE PUBLIC SERVICE JERRY BLACKWELL, ONE OF THE PROSECUTORS, ACTUALLY WENT TO UNC CHAPEL HILL.

AND SO TO SEE THE WAY THAT THEY ACTUALLY DID VALUE HUMAN LIFE AND THAT THEY LAID THE CASE OUT CLEAR AS DAY FOR THE JURY, SO THAT THEY COULD COME BACK RELATIVELY QUICKLY AND MAKE THIS DECISION OF GUILTY ON ALL 3 COUNTS, I WAS VERY PLEASED.

AS MARY SAID AT THE TOP, THIS ISN'T SO MUCH OF A CELEBRATION THOUGH.

IT'S TIME TO EXHALE IN THAT SAME BREATH MOVE TOWARD SYSTEMIC CHANGE AND CONTINUE TO PRESSURE LEADERS CONTINUE TO HOLD FEET TO THE FIRE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY GEORGE FLOYDS IN THE FUTURE OR SO THAT WE CAN PREVENT THE NUMBER OF GEORGE FLOYDS FROM HAPPENING.

WE KNOW POLICE VIOLENCE IS GOING TO CONTINUE IN THIS NATION.

HISTORY TELLS US THAT.

BUT ANY REDUCTION IN THE NUMBER OF BLACK LIVES LOST IN OUR COMMUNITIES IS A POSITIVE AND I HOPE THIS CASE SETS THE STANDARD TO THAT MATTER.

>> WELL, MARY GREEAR JUST SAID THIS DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN A CHANGE FOR POLICING, BUT YOU'VE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE AND COVER VARIOUS STORIES THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER AND I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOUR REFLECTIONS ARE ON THE IMPACT OF THIS CASE ON EQUAL JUSTICE.

>> I THINK DEFINITELY THERE IS AN IMPACT.

AND PEOPLE YES, YOU CAN SEE IT IN THE FACES OF MISTER FLOYD'S FAMILY AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE WITH THE FAMILIES OF OTHER PEOPLE LIKE MISTER WRIGHT LIKE ERIC GARNER SO MANY NAMES IT WOULD TAKE UP THE WHOLE SHOW, BUT I DO THINK THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON RIGHT NOW AND YOU SEE BOTH THINGS TO BE POSITIVE ABOUT AND THINGS THAT GIVE YOU PAUSE.

IN MY HOME STATE OF MARYLAND.

THE LEGISLATURE JUST OVERRODE THE GOVERNOR'S VETO TO TAKE SOME POWER AWAY FROM THE POLICE AND ALSO TO HAVE REFORMS WHEN IT COMES TO DISCIPLINE INVESTIGATION AND GET CITIZENS MORE INVOLVED.

AND SO THAT'S A POSITIVE DEVELOPMENT, BUT THEN YOU SEE IN FLORIDA THEY'VE JUST SIGNED A LAW GOVERNOR DESANTIS THAT IS GOING TO CRIMINALIZE FORMS OF PROTEST, AND IT SEEMS TO BE DIRECTLY AIMED AT BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTERS.

>> SO WE SEE THIS SORT OF A VICTORY BUT THEN THE PUSH BACK SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE WE HAVE TO BE READY FOR THAT.

>> YES, AND NATIONALLY THE GEORGE FLOYD JUSTICE IN POLICING ACT WHICH IS A LOT OF REFORMS THAT POLLS SAY THAT THE PUBLIC AGREES WITH BANNING CHOKE HOLDS, LIMITING NO KNOCK WARRANTS, GETTING DATA COLLECTION SO THAT POLICE CAN'T GO FROM ONE JURISDICTION TO ANOTHER WHEN THEY GET IN TROUBLE BUT IT STALLED IN THE SENATE.

SO YOU KNOW WE HAVE TO STILL KEEP THIS UP AND I DO THINK THERE WILL BE MORE PROTESTS AND MARCHES.

>> MORE PROTESTS.

BUT IT TAKES A COMBINATION OF THINGS COMING TOGETHER TO MAKE PROGRESS OCCUR AND PROFESSOR WILSON THAT LEADS ME TO ASKING YOU KNOW WE TAKE A LOOK AT EVERYTHING THAT HAD TO BE MOUNTED FOR THE FOR THE PROSECUTION TO WIN, BUT ALSO THE STRONG CASE THAT THE DEFENSE PUT UP.

AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE REALLY INFLUENCE THIS JURY THE MOST TO DELIVER THIS GUILTY VERDICT?

WHAT DID IT TAKE?

>> SO I THINK WERE ARE 2 REALLY CRITICAL THINGS THAT IT TOOK.

THE FIRST THING THAT IT TOOK WAS TO FOR THE JURY TO FIND THAT OFFICER CHAUVIN ACTUALLY CAUSED THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD.

IF YOU REMEMBER THOUGH THE DEFENSE'S DEFENSE WAS THAT MISTER FLOYD WAS A DRUG ADDICT AND THAT HE WAS KILLED BY OTHER SUPERSEDING FACTORS, PARTICULARLY THIS IDEA THAT BECAUSE HE WAS ON DRUGS THAT THAT IS WHAT CAUSED HIS DEATH AND NOT WHAT WE SAW WITH OUR OWN EYES WHICH WAS THE OFFICER PUTTING HIS KNEE ON HIS NECK ON HIS NECK FOR 9 MINUTES, >> RIGHT, AND SO IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S ONE OF THE GO-TOS WHEN A CASE LIKE THIS COMES UP, LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THIS VICTIM.

>> RIGHT, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT, ESPECIALLY WOULD YOU HAVE A BLACK VICTIM.

BLACK VICTIMS ARE OFTEN PUT ON TRIAL DURING THE TRIAL OF THEIR MURDERS AND SO WE SEE THAT HAPPEN A LOT WE SAW THAT HAPPEN IN THE TRAYVON MARTIN CASE, YOU COULD NAME A LOT OF THEM WHERE THIS HAPPENS AND SO THE THING THAT THE PROSECUTION HAD TO DO WAS TO OVERCOME THAT TREMENDOUS HURDLE AND I FOR ME THAT'S THE ONE OF THE GREATEST VICTORIES THAT I TAKE OUT OF THE VERDICT IS THAT THEY REJECTED WHAT IS WHAT I SEE IS A VERY RACIALIZED DEFENSE AND FOUND THAT THE OFFICER DID CAUSE HIS DEATH.

THE SECOND THING IS THAT THEY HAD TO FIND THAT CHAUVIN ACTED OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS OF WHAT A REASONABLE POLICE OFFICER WOULD DO.

AND SO WE SAW OTHER OFFICERS TESTIFY THAT HIS CONDUCT WAS OUT OF BOUNDS, BUT JUST FROM A NORMATIVE MATTER IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT OUT THERE THAT THIS IS NOT HOW A REASONABLE POLICE OFFICER SHOULD ACT OR COULD ACT AND THEREFORE HE IS GUILTY.

SO THOSE 2 THINGS I THINK WERE CRITICAL IN TERMS OF BREACHING THE VERDICTS THAT WERE REACHED.

>> GREEAR I WANT TO BRING YOU IN AGAIN BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN FIGHTING FOR A CAUSE FOR AT LEAST A YEAR.

WHAT WERE YOU FIGHTING FOR IN THIS AND HOW MUCH OF THAT DID YOU GET SOME SATISFACTION ON WHEN THIS GUILTY VERDICT WAS RETURNED?

>> I THINK THAT'S A CRUCIAL QUESTION FOR NOT ONLY MYSELF BUT SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE, SO MANY PEOPLE PERIOD IN THE UNITED STATES THAT CAME OUT LAST YEAR THAT HAVE COME OUT FOR DECADES AND CENTURIES EVEN TO PROTEST WHAT IS WRONG.

IN HOPES OF GETTING JUSTICE.

AND SO I WAS SATISFIED, I WAS PLEASED AND AGAIN I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A STEP TOWARD ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE SYSTEM OF POLICING IN THE UNITED STATES BUT NOT NECESSARILY TRUE JUSTICE.

I SAY OFTEN THAT TRUE CHANGE TAKES EDUCATION PLUS PROTESTING PLUS POLICY CHANGE.

SO THAT'S WHAT I WAS FIGHTING FOR ALONG SO MANY OTHERS LAST YEAR LAST SUMMER WAS TO EDUCATE OUR COMMUNITIES.

WE HAVE MANY OUR WHITE BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND GENDER NONCONFORMING FOLKS THAT WERE OUT WITH US WANTING TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS MOVEMENT FOR BLACK LIVES.

WE PROTESTED OBVIOUSLY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO AND AS MARY SAID IN THE FUTURE, I'M SURE PROTESTS AND MARCHES WILL OCCUR.

AND NOW WE'RE WAITING ON THAT POLICY CHANGE THAT FINAL LEG OF WHAT I CALL TRUE CHANGE.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'M PUSHING FOR NOW.

THE ONLY WAY WE CAN DO THAT IS TO UNITE AS ONE AS A COMMUNITY TO HOLD OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE, BUT ALSO HOLD THE LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE IN EACH OF OUR COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE ALSO TAKEN AN OATH TO PROTECT US TO KEEP US SAFE AND TO FIGHT FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE AND EQUALITY AND SO THAT'S WHAT I FEEL IS THE NEXT STEP AND SO I WAS PLEASED WITH THE VERDICT.

THE 3 GUILTY COUNTS AND I THINK FOR SO MANY OF US, IT WAS A RELIEF BECAUSE WE FOUGHT SO HARD WE WERE OUT IN THE STREETS, WE WERE YELLING UNTIL OUR VOICES WERE RAW.

WE WERE TEAR GASSED AND PEPPER SPRAYED.

AND I THINK IT IS SO KEY THAT WE DID GET THIS VERDICT, BUT AGAIN IN THAT SAME BREATH WHERE SO MANY BLACK FOLKS IN AMERICA EXHALED, I THINK WE'VE GOT TO USE THAT BREATH TO RECOMMIT, TO RE-ENERGIZE AND UNITE AS ONE TO HOLD OUR LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE AND DEMAND REALLY THAT TRUE CHANGE AND TRUE JUSTICE IS REALIZED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN NORTH CAROLINA.

>> YOU KNOW I LOVE THAT GREEAR HEAD HAS IDENTIFIED THESE KIND OF 3 POINTS THAT ARE SO KEY TO PROGRESS.

THE EDUCATION, THE CHANGE IN POLICY, THE THE PROTEST ITSELF.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER FACTOR THAT IS THE SOCIAL MEDIA ASPECT AND I WANTED YOU TO COMMENT ON HOW YOU BELIEVE THE SOCIAL MEDIA'S ROLE IN ALL OF THIS HAS PLAYED OUT IN DO YOU THINK THAT SOCIAL JOURNALISM INFLUENCED THE VERDICT.

>> WAS FOR ME?

>> YES MARY.

I'M SORRY.

>> THAT'S OKAY.

I THINK IT IS CRUCIAL.

I THINK THAT'S A BIG POINT AND PEOPLE REMEMBER THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIONS OF THE 60'S AND 50'S THAT POLICY DIDN'T CHANGE UNTIL THE LEADERS WERE PUSHED BY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMMUNICATING AND IN THE STREETS AND IN THIS CASE SOCIAL MEDIA MADE THIS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON.

YOU SAW PEOPLE GETTING OUT THERE AND ALSO THE JOURNALIST ON THE GROUND WHO WERE DOCUMENTING EVERYTHING AND WE SEE IN SOME CASES WHERE THE JOURNALISTS THEMSELVES WERE SUBJECT TO SOME POLICE VIOLENCE.

BECAUSE OF COURSE, TRANSPARENCY IS THE KEY, AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE MORE OF THAT AND THAT WILL BE CRUCIAL.

AND EVERY BIT OF SOMETHING THAT THE POLICE ARE GOING TO DO THEY KNOW IT IS GOING TO BE DOCUMENTED AND I WOULD LIKE TO YOU KNOW HAVE A WORD IN FOR MY FELLOW JOURNALISTS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT THERE, YOU KNOW GETTING PEPPER SPRAYED YOU KNOW GETTING THE NEWS OUT THERE.

AND IT IS ALWAYS THAT TRANSPARENCY AND THAT ACTIVISM THAT PUSHES OUR LEADERS.

WE'VE SEEN JUST RECENTLY THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS TAKEN BACK THAT BAN THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAD ON CONSENT DECREES ON OVERSEEING LOCAL POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND THAT IS NOT OF COURSE, THE FINAL ANSWER, BUT THAT WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT MAKING ALL OF THIS TRANSPARENT.

>> I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU ON THE JOURNALISM ASPECT BECAUSE JOURNALISTS HAD BEEN TARGETED BY BOTH PROTESTERS AND OTHER FOLKS WITH OVER THIS PROCESS WHY AND PERHAPS GREEAR AND PROFESSOR WILSON, YOU CAN WEIGH IN ON THIS AS WELL.

WHY THIS TARGETING OF THE MEDIA AND WHAT'S THEIR ROLE IN KIND OF PERHAPS BEATING OF A NARRATIVE THAT'S NOT HELPFUL TO THE CAUSE?

MARY?

>> YEAH I WAS JUST SAYING IN MINNESOTA YOU SAW THE GOVERNOR TIM WALZ STEP IN TO SAY THAT THIS IS WRONG BECAUSE OF THE CASES OF JOURNALISTS WITH THEIR PRESS CREDENTIALS GETTING ARRESTED AND ATTACKED.

AND IT'S PARTICULARLY THE CASE FOR BLACK MINORITY JOURNALISTS BECAUSE SOMETIMES EVEN WITH PRESS CREDENTIALS, THEY ARE NOT BELIEVED.

AND SOMETIMES THEIR WHITE COLLEAGUES HAVE TO VOUCH FOR THEM AND SOMETIMES THAT DOES NOT EVEN WORK.

AND I BELIEVE AN ASIAN AMERICAN JOURNALIST WAS ASKED, "DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH", AND WAS ARRESTED.

AND SO I THINK THAT IS A DEMOCRACY OF COURSE A DEMOCRACY IS A FREE PRESS.

AND I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS GOING TO PLAY A BIG ROLE AS WELL INTO INVESTIGATING THESE CASES AND LOOKING AT THEM AND NOT NECESSARILY TAKING THE -- INITIALLY WITHOUT THAT VIDEO, THE PRESS RELEASE FROM THE POLICE IN THE CASE OF GEORGE FLOYD WAS THAT HE STRUGGLED, THERE WAS A STRUGGLE, AND THEN HE WAS IN MEDICAL DISTRESS.

SO NOW I THINK THERE WILL BE SKEPTICISM EVEN ON THE PART OF SOME MEDIA THAT HAVE BEEN GULLIBLE BECAUSE YOU CANNOT TAKE THAT AS GOSPEL.

>> AND I DON'T KNOW HOW HEALTHY THAT IS ON EITHER SIDE.

PROFESSOR WILSON, YOU KNOW THE ROLE OF THE MEDIA AND ALL OF THIS WHEN IT COMES TO EQUAL JUSTICE GETTING THE RIGHT MESSAGE OUT AND YOU KNOW FAIRNESS WITHIN THE SYSTEM, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUT FRONT THAT THE MEDIA CAN EITHER BE AN ARM AND TOOL OF WHITE SUPREMACY OR CAN UP END IT.

AND SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN TERMS OF RESISTANCE TO THE MEDIA IS THIS FEAR THAT THE MEDIA IS NO LONGER SERVING AS THE KIND OF CONDUIT OR TOOL FOR WHITE SUPREMACY THAT CERTAIN INSTITUTIONS AND POWER STRUCTURES WOULD LIKE THEM TO DO.

AND I THINK A BIG REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE SOCIAL MEDIA HAS CHANGED THE GAME.

IT MEANS THAT THE THE YOUNG 17 YEAR-OLD GIRL WHOM HAD THE COURAGE TO VIDEOTAPE.

THAT AWFUL MURDER.

NOW HAS THE THE POWER TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AND SO I THINK IN SOME WAYS THAT HOLDS MEDIA ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE IF THE AVERAGE PERSON ON THE STREET WITH A CELL PHONE CAMERA IN THEIR HAND CAN BECOME A CONDUIT FOR MEDIA THAT MEANS THAT TRADITIONAL MEDIA NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GETTING THE STORY RIGHT BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, I CAN'T EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH IS THAT THE ATTACKS ON THE MEDIA ARE MOST DEFINITELY, IN MY OPINION, RELATED TO THE WAYS IN WHICH MEDIA IS PUSHING BACK AGAINST BEING A USED AS A TOOL FOR WHITE SUPREMACY AS LONG AS THAT KEEPS HAPPENING, THE ATTACKS ON THE MEDIA WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

>> GREEAR WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ROLE OF MEDIA IN ALL OF THIS?

>> I THINK MEDIA AND SPECIFICALLY SOCIAL MEDIA CAN DEFINITELY HELP THE CAUSE AND HELP THE MOVEMENT, I MEAN, AS MARY WAS ALLUDING TO, JUST EXPANDING ON A FEW OF HER POINTS BRIEFLY, OMAR JIMENEZ OF CNN WAS ACTUALLY ARRESTED LIVE ON CAMERA LAST SUMMER.

WE SAW LIVE THAT THEY WERE BEING HIT WITH RUBBER BULLETS AND PEPPER SPRAYED AND TEAR GASSED EVEN WHEN THEY WERE SHOWING THEIR CREDENTIALS TO THE OFFICER AND SO I AGREE WITH PROFESSOR WILSON IN THAT REGARD.

I THINK THAT SOCIAL MEDIA WE'VE SEEN THIS WITH THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT CAN DEFINITELY PLAY A POWERFUL ROLE IN SPREADING NARRATIVES AND ALLOWING FOLKS TO BEAR WITNESS TO THE TRUTH AS YOUNG DARNELLA FRAZIER SHOWED US IN THE FILMING OF THE HORRIFIC MURDER THAT WAS GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH.

AND SO I THINK IT'S VERY KEY THAT WE CONTINUE TO USE ALL OF THE TOOLS THAT ARE LAID IN FRONT OF US ALL OF THE TOOLS THAT WE HAVE THE POWER TO REALLY TAKE AND REALLY CHANGE THE WAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE TREATED IN THIS NATION AND THEN HOPEFULLY WE ARE MOVING IN USING SOCIAL MEDIA TO MOVE TOWARD JUSTICE, EQUITY AND TRANSPARENCY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

MARY WHAT'S NEXT FOR AMERICA TO CONTINUE TO BE AWAKE, OR IS AMERICA AWAKE, IF NOT WHO STILL SLEEPING?

>> WELL, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SAY JUSTICE WAS DONE, THE SYSTEM IS FINE.

THAT'S WHY IT'S BEEN MIXED FEELINGS BECAUSE A LOT OF MINORITIES WANT TO SAY THIS WAS SO RARE.

LOOK AT THESE DEATHS THAT ARE STILL HAPPENING THESE KILLINGS, THIS IS THE BEGINNING NOT THE END.

SO THAT THE TASK WILL BE TO KEEP A FOCUS ON THIS PARTICULAR PROBLEM.

HOW POLICE OFFICERS INTERACT WITH COMMUNITIES, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PROTECT AND SERVE WHERE THE CASE OF MINORITY COMMUNITIES, IT'S TOO OFTEN THAT THEY'RE OVER POLICED.

LOOK AT THINGS LIKE TRAFFIC STOPS AND MENTAL HEALTH CRISES AND IT IS A POLICE RESPONSE, THE BEST RESPONSE TO THESE THINGS THAT SO OFTEN AND IN DEATH OR SOME KIND OF CRISIS FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR.

UNFORTUNATELY WE KEEP HAVING THESE CASES SO I DO THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO KEEP THOSE PROTESTS OR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTIVISTS WILL BECAUSE THEY REALIZE THAT YOU KNOW THIS ISN'T A SIGH OF RELIEF AND YOU KNOW AS I SAID EARLIER IF THIS HAD ENDED IN AN AQUITTAL, AND EVERY MINORITY I KNOW WAS WORRIED THAT IT WOULD THAT THIS WOULD HAVE MEANT OPEN SEASON, BUT NOW IT STILL MEANS THAT POLICE HAVE TO EXAMINE THEMSELVES AND HAVE THAT OVERSIGHT.

AND LOOK AT THESE BILLS THAT ARE TRYING TO MOVE THROUGH CONGRESS AND SEE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THEM BECAUSE THERE IS STILL RESISTANCE THERE ARE STILL MANY PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WE SHOULD HAVE A PRETTY MUCH OPEN HAND.

ARE THE GUARDIANS OR ARE THEY WARRIORS?

THIS IS HAPPENING WITHIN THE POLICE THEMSELVES.

>> THERE'S DEFINITELY A CULTURE TO BE EXAMINED TO MAKE PROGRESS ON.

PROFESSOR WILSON, THE TRIALS OF THE OTHER 3 OFFICERS WHO WERE ON THE SCENE WITH GEORGE FLOYD WHEN HE WAS MURDERED IS STILL PENDING.

SO WHAT DOES THIS DECISION DO IN TERMS OF IMPACT ON THOSE TRIALS YOU THINK?

>> SO THOSE OTHER OFFICERS WERE CHARGED ESSENTIALLY WITH AIDING AND ABETTING A MURDER RATE AND SOLD A GUILTY VERDICT HERE SOLIDIFIES THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS A MURDER.

THAT THEY CAN BE CHARGED WITH AIDING AND ABETTING.

SO I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT NEXT, WHETHER OR NOT SOME OF THE OFFICERS PLEAD OUT NOW THAT THEY'VE SEEN SEEN THE GUILTY VERDICT, BUT SHOULD ONE OR ALL OF THEM GO FORWARD AND GO TO TRIAL, I THINK IT WILL HAVE IMPORTANT REPERCUSSIONS FOR HOW WE HOLD POLICE OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE, THIS IDEA THAT THIS IS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM AND NOT A ONE OFFICER PROBLEM, THIS IDEA THAT 3 OFFICERS ESSENTIALLY STOOD WATCH AS MISTER FLOYD WAS BEGGING FOR HIS LIFE AND DID NOT INTERVENE.

I THINK JUST THE SITUATIONAL POSITION THAT THESE 3 OFFICERS WERE AND I THINK SHOULD CAUSE US TO REEXAMINE OUR WHOLE NOTIONS AN IDEA OF POLICING.

I ALWAYS TELL MY STUDENTS AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE TO FRAME THE PROBLEM WRONG.

YOU'RE GOING TO FRAME THE SOLUTION WRONG.

I THINK THIS ENTIRE THING, BUT ESPECIALLY THESE 3 OFFICERS SHOULD REALLY GIVE US PAUSE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT CURSORIAL SOLUTIONS AND POLICING IN THE WAY THAT WE DO IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO TO GOVERN IN OUR SOCIETY.

>> WELL, I CERTAINLY APPRECIATE THE PERSPECTIVE AND THE EXPERTISE OF ALL 3 OF YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I DEFINITELY WANT TO THANK MARY C. CURTIS, DOCTOR ERICA WILSON AND GREEAR WEBB FOR THEIR THOUGHTFUL COMMENTARY TODAY.

WE INVITE YOU TO ENGAGE WITH US ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM USING THE #BLACKISSUESFORUM.

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