Saint Augustine’s University & Hip-Hop’s Impact on Education

- Coming up next on "Black Issues Forum" a look at a Raleigh HBCU and their state-of-the-art studio that's providing great hands-on learning opportunities for students.

Then a special conversation about the influence hiphop culture has had on education.

And a look at a Raleigh resident creating space to merge the two.

Artists Rah Digga and Special Ed weigh in.

Don't go too far, we'll be right back to talk all about it.

- [Announcer] "Black Issues Forum" is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to "Black Issues Forum" I'm Kenia Thompson.

St. Augustine's University is one of the oldest triangle Historically Black Colleges and Universities, and home to WAUG, a commercial television station that provides students with an opportunity to gain real life experience with state-of-the-art technology.

- I chose to enroll in St. Augusta's University to make a difference.

The academy here at St. Augustine's University for Media and Communications is a very important platform that has been created over the last few years.

But it's also been run over, and taken over by students and student engagement.

- Students get to have real life experience working in a state-of-the-art radio station that is streaming worldwide.

While also, students that are interested more on the TV side also get hands-on experience in a state-of-the-art TV station using equipment that will be comparable to what they will be using in the industry.

- To tell us more about WAUG, we welcome to the show Dan Holly, Media and Communications Program Coordinator at St. Augustine's University in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Dan.

- Good to be here.

- Great to have you, tell us a little bit about St. Augustine's history, as well as the inception of WAUG.

- Well, St. Augustine's has been around since 1867.

And we have grown and prospered over the years.

And the Media and Communications Program has always been one of our pillars.

We had, I guess you would call him a visionary, by the name of Jay Holloway, who in the late '80s, established a commercial TV and radio station.

We were, at the time, the first HBCU in the country to have both a commercial TV and radio station.

Today, we are one of two that has that distinction.

And it has had its ups and downs over the years.

You know, the '80s is a long time ago, especially technologically.

And the finances of St. Augustine's, and all HBCUs as you know, has been problematic at times.

And the TV station kinda fell behind technologically.

It kind of deteriorated.

Some of the equipment was no longer working.

And it's always been a sore spot.

It's always been one of those things that we wish we could do for students.

And it worked for a while, for a good long time.

But even when it was fully operational, it didn't have the capabilities that it will have once we get it back up and running as a fully digital operation.

But we've been trying over the years to get it back up and running.

And it wasn't until, as you may know, the federal government, the FCC mandated that all TV stations be digital.

I don't fully know the ins and outs of that.

But all I know is that because we had this mandate, money came along with it.

And we finally got some serious money a couple years ago.

And we took that and ran with it.

And now we are creating a fully digital state of the...

I mean, for a college TV station.

I'm looking around here, and we're not quite up to your standards.

But it's for a college TV station.

It will be state-of-the-art and we're looking forward to it.

- That's beautiful.

I know, I was a journalism student, obviously.

And you know, the most exciting part of being a journalism student was having those opportunities to learn.

And so talk about how this television station has provided hands-on experience for these students to prepare them for what's outside of the school walls.

- Well, I'll tell you, there is nothing that teaches you better than actual experience.

I mean, we could stand up in a classroom and lecture all you want but students aren't really going to get it until they get out there and they do it themselves.

And you could see their level of interest just spark once they get that camera in their hands.

And we've been doing that for quite a while.

But it's always been academic.

We've created student news shows, student public affairs talk shows but nobody really sees them.

It's, it's mostly just for academic purposes.

But when we get this, and we've already been using some of the equipment that we've gotten, but we don't have the studio up and running yet.

We expect that by the end of the year, the end of this academic year in May, but they will be able to learn behind the scenes camera skills.

They'll be able to learn on air skills.

They will be able to sit in a real anchor chair.

And the most important thing, they will have those highlight reels to send out to professional, to send out as they start their professional careers.

To show that they can handle it.

- Yeah, and that's important, I mean, when we talk about competition, there's already a huge competition in this space but then as minorities in media it's critical to keep this art alive.

And so talk about how it's integrated into the curriculum at St. Augustine's and how is there competitive edge with your students?

- Well, we have long had a course that teaches TV production on air.

We have long had a course that that teaches behind the camera skills.

But like I said, it's been more academic than hands on in real life, and what we are doing, we've already had planning meetings for this and next semester we're gonna, kind of ease into it.

We don't want to jump in it and get in over our heads, but next semester we're going to have segments where those classes go into the studio and spend, right now we envision a week where they would actually produce a news show.

And by the semester after that, by the spring of 2024 what we want to do is create a weekly student produced TV news show that will not only be put onto our website, most likely the website, we have a student newspaper.

We want to make that a multimedia operation, just like the New York Times and newyorktimes.com.

I'm not saying it's gonna be that good, but it's gonna be multimedia.

And that's the future.

That's what the world they're going into.

They need to write, they need to be able to produce video content and we want to replicate that on our level by the spring of 2024.

And those courses, it will be integrated into those courses.

So, for their, let's say for their final project they might have to produce a TV news segment.

- And so, you're talking about all these different skill sets that they're learning.

You've talked about being behind the camera, talk about some of the role types and the jobs that your students are gonna be able to hold post-graduation.

- Well, we already have students who are out there doing things that we prepared them for, but I'll be honest, I think what we really did was we prepared them to have the ambition and the belief that they can do that.

We have a student, for instance, who is a digital assistant for the Congressional Black Caucus.

Now we do have courses that cover that but I'm sure and we tell the students, look, there's a lot that you're gonna learn on the job.

We can't teach you everything but we want those students to go out there with the attitude that, hey, I can do this.

I've got something to bring to the table.

I don't know everything I need to know, but I'm ready to take the first step.

And we also have students, we have a magazine editor.

We have, I just heard from a student last week who started her own PR company down in Atlanta.

She has some very prominent clients and those are the kind of jobs that we expect them to have.

But I guess really to fully answer your question, we don't really know what kind of jobs they're gonna take.

And I'll just give you one quick example, you may or may not have heard of Vena Excel, Pretty Vee, you probably heard of Wild and Out, the Nick Cannon Show, yeah, she was on that show.

But the way she got on that show was she had became an Instagram influencer.

She had something like 2 million followers.

She became a sort of a personality through social media.

Now she's in movies, she's out there in Hollywood starring their movies.

So, she took everything we prepared her for and ran with it.

- Well, I think that the options are in abundance.

I think what you guys are doing is amazing, providing this opportunity for these students.

And real quickly for those that may want to support, we know HBCUs, they're at kind of a disadvantage of enrollment.

And there's a threat of understanding, are we gonna continue to sustain?

If someone wants to donate, support what's going on at Saint Augustine's, how would they do that really quickly?

- Well, one way we could do that locally.

I mean, globally, you could always donate to the United Negro College Fund, but locally, we do have a professional advisory board that was kind of decimated by COVID when nobody was meeting.

And we are getting it back together, and we need some new fresh faces.

Hint, hint, Kenia.

[laughing] So, yeah, that's one way.

If you are a local, we might be calling on you.

- Wonderful.

Well, Dan Holly, Saint Augustine's University, thank you so much for the work that you do and all the best to the students in the curriculum.

- Thank you.

- Another form of media that finds its way onto many campuses is hip hop.

Hip hop pedagogy courses has become more and more popular these days in college, and even in K through 12 curriculum.

Characterized by a strong rhythmic beat and a rapping vocal track, the hip hop genre originated in New York City in the 1970s as a cultural exchange among Black, Latino, and Caribbean youth, and has grown into one of the most consumed genres of music in the United States.

We're fortunate to have with us today two iconic hip hop artists, Rah Digga and Special Ed, joined by Aspire2Hire founder Stephanie Reed.

Welcome to all of you.

- Thank you for having us.

- Good morning.

- Good morning.

- Good morning.

- Good morning.

When we talk about hip hop, names like Rah Digga and Special Ed are at the cornerstone of hip hop.

Rah Digga, I wanna come to you first.

You made great strides in the game, joining Busta Rhymes' Flip Mode Squad as the first female in the group.

Tell us a little bit about what it was like being a female artist at that time and joining forces with Busta Rhymes.

- Well, they always say hip hop is a male dominated sport.

And I actually come from an another Jersey based crew where I was the lone female, so it was pretty, it was a nice transition, if you will.

It was something I was already used to.

And then someone whom I idolized was Roxanne Shante.

And just seeing her whole track as far as having to come into the game and battle males, it was pretty much something I was already accustomed to seeing.

We saw, I saw, my introduction to Salt-N-Pepa were them coming into the game, making diss tracks towards Slick Rick and Doug E. Fresh.

So it was already something that I knew in my head it was going to be a girls versus boys thing in order to be taken serious.

So I kind of had that mindset already coming into it.

So by the time I went through my journey and ultimately landed in Flip Mode, I was already acclimated to the position.

- You were already ready.

- That's right.

- That's right.

Special Ed, at 17 years old, you released your first album and found yourself making history in what we refer to today as true hip hop.

Talk about the importance behind the impact hip hop has had in media at that time and shaping the culture.

- Oh, well, hip hop has definitely shaped the culture, and it's the message in the music.

It's the hiphop-nosis that you are tuned into, and they realize that, they realize that the messaging has effects.

And that's one of the reasons with my message, and I kept it positive affirmations.

I told you about excellence, and that's what you repeated, and that's what you programmed into yourself.

So hip hop influences people in general, especially how many times you're exposed to it or how many times you expose yourself.

So when you sit there and listen to music over and over again, you're programming yourself, whether positively or negatively.

- Stephanie, I know you find a lot of identity in how hip hop shapes what you do today.

What would you say is your biggest impact, is the biggest impact hip hop has had on today's culture?

- I would have to echo the sentiments of Special Ed that the messaging is probably the largest impact because it then permeates many other parts of society.

The messaging begins in song, but then it ends up in other forms of entertainment, other forms of media.

It ends up in our language and how we, our style of dress and many, many different impacts.

But it also could have some both positive and negative impacts in the ways people interpret the message.

And so that's what makes me think the message in and of itself is the most powerful.

- Rah, I wanna get back to you.

Hip hop has often been used as a platform for social and political commentary.

Artists have addressed issues such as racism, poverty, police brutality in their music.

You've been praised for using your lyrics for social justice.

What are your thoughts on the usage of the art form for advocacy?

- I think some of the most important life lessons come from hip hop because it's one thing to learn things in a classroom setting, but it's a whole nother thing when someone that looks like you and comes from where you come from is saying the same thing.

I can sit in a classroom and a teacher can give me reading lists and talk about this book and that book all day.

And it'll just be something that comes and goes for that classroom.

But when KRS is screaming at me, "Read a book, read a book."

Now, he is the reason that I make sure I carve time aside to read books daily to this day.

So, I think there's a lot to be said when the teachers are from what we say outside, if you will.

And when it comes from someone that you feel like can relate to you, you can relate to them.

Sometimes that message just, it just sticks harder.

- Yeah, yeah.

I agree.

Special ed hip hop, we know, we keep saying it, it's had a huge impact on music both in the United States, around the world.

The genre has spawned numerous sub-genres and has influenced other genres such as pop, R&B and rock.

Do you consider this as a form of appropriation?

- Yes and you have to still give room for creativity like they're artists and they're gonna express themselves in any way they see fit.

The children have a whole entirely new way of expressing themselves as the generations continue.

So, you have to still let everyone have their own expressive creativity without judgment.

Because when we were making the music, we were judged the same way for what we were saying and doing.

However, it's your conduct and what you say off the stage.

So, the accountability comes in what you present in real life, what you say in real time to these people and these children.

Are you still representing the fiction that you were just performing or are you speaking as an entrepreneur and musician to the masses?

So you can either play the role and project ignorance or you can take accountability for your craft and say, "Look, this is jokes.

This is supposed to excite you or do whatever, but this is reality that we're living in and we don't go out there and practice this."

You know what I mean?

Art imitates life, it's not supposed to be the other way around.

We're imitating what we see, but unfortunately, that is how it works with media and programming.

So, we have to just be mindful and careful of that part, how we receive it and how we process it.

- Good points.

Stephanie, bringing you back in.

Do you think other cultures truly appreciate hip hop?

Can they identify with it?

I snicker because for me it's sort of a double-edged sword.

I do believe that anyone and everyone can truly appreciate hip hop.

I also though believe that there is a level of appropriation that will in fact occur and I happen to sort of hold hip hop as an identity.

So, if I'm honest, when I see other cultures use of hip hop and I feel that it is misrepresentative of the goals from where hip hop was grown.

For instance, hip hop initially told a lot of stories that people who identify as Black, African American, Hispanic, Latino, New York Ricans, they did not have the access to the media in the ways that some of their peers did.

We, in hip hop at that time made something out of nothing.

So in that respect, I feel a little bit of a stab when I think that the culture is not being respected and promoted with respect as an actual culture.

There are elements to the culture and only those who are part of its origin can tell that origin story.

So it's a bit of a double answer for me.

- Yeah, yeah.

Well, in addition to being used as a vehicle for expression, hip hop has also been used as a teaching tool in the classrooms to engage students and make learning more fun and relatable.

Hip hop has been seen as a thread of culture that cannot be separated from learning.

Stephanie, you're reinforcing that with Aspire2Higher's Hip Hop in Higher Ed Symposium to be held next week at William Peace University in downtown Raleigh.

And Rah Digga will be joining you in a special conversation.

Tell us about the Symposium, why it's important, and why this is something that needs to be happening here.

- Thank you for the question.

The symposium is important to the culture but it's also important to the Raleigh community for a couple of reasons.

For students in the area, and for hip hop artists, hip hop producers, B-boys, B-girls, to also be respected as scholarly.

And so my point in bringing these worlds together in a community event, is for the scholarship to be centered on those who are actually using the culture for good, who are telling strong stories, who are respecting the origins.

And I want students to be able to see that they are in close proximity to greatness.

For instance, you know, for me, Rah Digga being in the room alone is like a wow moment.

And I want students to be able to, they won't have an opportunity to hear directly from Rah Digga, you know, when they go to school on Monday.

But if they can learn from her what I call scholarly swag, right.

The way Rah Digga communicates outside of her performance I think aligns with what they see in her performance.

And so I want them to be able to sit in that.

It's just like when, you know, when we were growing up we created, our elders created space for us to sit up under the knowledge of other people.

And that's what the symposium is designed to do.

It is two days, and I hope people join us next week.

- Definitely, I wanna pull in Rah Digga here.

You know, many might not know, you talked about her scholarly presence.

She scored a 1300 on her SATs, studied electrical engineering, received a full ride to MIT but decided to go the music route.

Talk to us a little bit about the importance of education and hip hop and how you've seen the two merge.

- And let the record reflect that at the time, 1600 was the highest score.

I hear there's a three-part now where, where it's 888, but at that time there was only the reading and the math.

So yes, I was definitely in that top percentile.

I feel in terms of like hip hop and academia, the way that they're intersecting now, I think it's beautiful, because you get oftentimes, especially the origin stories of hip hop, it came with a lot of, [audio issues] and I think pretty much centered on the the negative of of hip hop, or turning the messages into negative, if you will.

So I think that the fact that it's a genre that's being respected enough to be taught in academia, and just letting people, you know letting people experience it through another lens if they're not outside, or if they're not in the streets.

Just to see the actual like learning and growth potential of it.

The fact that it's being taken that serious, I think it's a win-win for hip hop.

It gives, you know, it gives students the chance to form their own opinions, and not necessarily not just get brainwashed into thinking that, oh they're just a bunch of thugs and criminals.

But I love that it's you know, it is being respected enough to be taught around the country, around the world.

And from, you know, from the street corners to your most prestigious universities.

- Indeed, indeed.

A little bit less than a minute here.

Special Ed, you're known for your usage of lyrics and wordsmithing.

Talk about the importance of putting in that education once again in your lyrics and like 30 seconds here.

I know it's not much, but I'd love to hear from you on that.

- Well, the importance is children live what they learn.

So the messages that you put into your music and what they're repeating and listening to a hundred thousand times is exactly what they're gonna learn and what they're gonna exude, and what they're gonna manifest.

- [Kenya] Beautiful.

- So we just have to be careful about that, and identify it as entertainment.

- Yeah, great way, great way to sum that up.

Rah Digga, Special Ed, Stephanie Reed, thank you so much for being here on with us on the show.

- Thank you.

- [Special Ed] Thank you for having us.

- We invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag Black Issues Forum.

You can also find our full episodes on PBSNC.org/BlackIssuesForum, and on the PBS video app.

Thank you for watching.

I'm Kenya Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ - [Voiceover] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.