[piano intro] - [Announcer] "Shaped by Sound" is made possible through support from Come Hear NC, a program of the North Carolina Arts Council within the North Carolina Department of Natural and Cultural Resources.

- [Producer] "Shaped by Sound"!

- 13 North Carolina artists, their songs, their stories, this stage.

[gentle rhythmic drum beat] [guitar strumming] [drums continue] ♪ I am holding back my tongue ♪ ♪ Try not to let it show ♪ ♪ But all your friends and family seem to notice ♪ ♪ I hope it gets to you, when you are ready ♪ ♪ I am telling you all my thoughts ♪ ♪ As you empty out your pockets ♪ ♪ For the plane ticket that you've lost ♪ ♪ Be safe, you fool, in New York City ♪ ♪ Be safe, you fool, In New York City ♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ I will break you in ♪ ♪ I've tried it before and I'll try it again ♪ ♪ But if this time, you feel your shell has grown too thin ♪ ♪ I would lend you my skin ♪ ♪ I'd lend you my skin ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ Heard you were rolling in the good times out west ♪ ♪ Went to the desert to find your destiny and place ♪ ♪ Did they set you straight in your life crisis?

♪ ♪ Did you see me floating there above your body like ♪ ♪ An angel suspended ♪ ♪ Or an enemy you failed to recognize ♪ ♪ Was I there that night?

♪ ♪ Did I haunt you?

♪ ♪ Was I there that night?

♪ ♪ Could I save you?

♪ ♪ Oh ♪ ♪ I will break you in ♪ ♪ And I like the fight ♪ ♪ And you, you like to win ♪ ♪ But if, this time, you feel my love has grown too thin ♪ ♪ Then I would lend you my skin ♪ ♪ I'd lend you my skin ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ooh, ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ooh ♪ [fiddle playing soothing alternative folk music] [soothing music continues] [soothing music continues] [soothing music continues] - Dan and Halli from River Whyless.

Thank you so much for being on "Shaped by Sound".

- Yeah, thanks for having us.

- Happy to be here.

- Tell us a little bit about the name River Whyless.

Where did that come from?

- We're a very democratic band, and it takes a long time to land on an idea that we all are cool with, and we threw around a lot of names, and somehow, those two words are the ones that we all voted for.

Alex pulled the word "whyless" from an E. Cummings poem, but he pulled the word "whyless sky", the phrase was "Whyless sky", and he really liked the word "whyless", and we talked about it, and what it felt like to us.

And then we all thought we wanted "river" in the band because we, from Western North Carolina, and we liked being in and around rivers.

It felt like there was some quote, you never step in the same river twice because it's always moving and changing, and that felt like a good concept with the whyless; not really knowing the answer to things, but being okay with that, and it stuck.

- When was it when you were like, "Okay, this is really River Whyless as we know it"?

- So, it was 2012, our first gig as River Whyless.

Billed as River Whyless.

- The next year, we were really writing a lot of music together, and you know, a year after that, we were recording music, and it just has continued since then.

- It was pretty heavy touring, too.

I felt like we started to hit the road a lot.

Our nightly quota was to make $125 as a group.

- Yeah.

Okay.

- And that will keep us on the road.

That was like, enough to keep us going.

To keep the attitude up and keep us happy, and pay the gas.

We weren't doing hotels.

We were camping only or staying with friends, so you'd roll up to the campsite after the gig at midnight, and everyone have your headlamps on, setting up your tent, you'd crash, and then you don't really know where you are 'cause it's dark.

You got the van headlights pointing, and then you wake up the next morning, and wherever you are... - Or there's a police knocking on you.

Like, "This is not a campsite."

[all chuckle] We thought it was a campsite.

- Oopsies!

Like Chicago, that time that everyone was in their boxers, and we were sleeping in the van in a residential neighborhood, and we woke up to this sound of water hitting the van, and there was a man standing in his yard with a hose, and he was just spraying water on the van like, "Hey punks, get outta the neighbor."

Like, "You shouldn't be here."

And I remember Ryan in his boxers crawled up to the steering wheel and drove the van like, three blocks down, and then we slept some more.

[chuckles] - Nice.

- Oh yeah.

That was right before.

- Yeah.

Audio Tree.

- Right before we had two video podcasts that day.

- [James] Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

- Yeah.

Audio Tree.

- That's so funny to hear that story, 'cause I've seen that performance, and you guys crush it!

- We were so tired.

We drove through the night, slept in the van in Chicago, got sprayed by the dad, and then like, somehow, pulled it together by 10:00 AM to play that show.

[gentle indie folk plays] ♪ Long-time lover, have you gone?

♪ ♪ I left you walking through the parking lot of a Motel 6 ♪ ♪ As I turned our van back east ♪ ♪ Somewhere on the road, we lost our way ♪ ♪ But in my mind, in my mind ♪ ♪ I can save us all, I can breathe it all back to life ♪ ♪ In my mind, in my mind ♪ ♪ Well, I've spent my whole life movin' ♪ ♪ I've spent my whole life on a road ♪ ♪ From a dream, I'm wakin' up ♪ ♪ And for the first time, I'm terrified of wakin' up alone ♪ [fiddle playing] [gentle indie folk music continues] ♪ Within the shade of my delusions ♪ ♪ I drive into the night, I drive into a lie ♪ ♪ That I deemed worth living all my life ♪ ♪ In my hands, a child is dying ♪ ♪ In my mind, in my mind ♪ ♪ I can save the boy ♪ ♪ I can breathe it all back to life ♪ ♪ In my mind, in my mind ♪ ♪ Well, I've spent my whole life movin' ♪ ♪ I've spent my whole life on a road ♪ ♪ From a dream, I'm wakin' up ♪ ♪ And for the first time ♪ ♪ Well, I'm terrified of wakin' up alone ♪ ♪ Ooh, I'm terrified of wakin' up alone ♪ [gentle indie folk music continues] - So, you were mentioning that you all are very democratic.

- Every aspect of every song is up for debate, and, you know, all the different musical parts, all the lyrics, all the chords, all the, you know, everything from the way it's recorded to the tempo it's played, and it makes for a lot of different versions of songs, which is fun, and also very tiring sometimes.

- So you do have to be prepared to compromise your inner feelings for the greater whole, which is such a cool practice, but such a hard practice to do years, and years, and years.

But I think we've gotten used to it now, so we love each other going into it, and we know that we're gonna have these conversations.

- Is there a song that somebody brought it to the group and you're like, "That's it.

Let's not touch it"?

- "The Pool" is an example of that.

- That was a one and done?

- I don't think it was really messed with at all.

- Yeah.

It was a song with a guitar, and then we just added some harmonies, and a little bit of instrumentation.

- When you know, you know.

- "The Pool" is a story.

Ryan wrote the lyrics to this one, and it's about a dear friend of his.

She was a friend of all of ours, but it's a friend of his first and foremost from when he was a little kid.

She, was like, late twenties, I think, died of breast cancer, and as she was in the hospital, she was in a lot of pain, and she was being told about like, a pool of water, or she just wanted to be in a pool of water where she could just float and the pain would go away, and unfortunately, that wasn't a reality for her, but that was like, one of her wishes that she could have, and that's where that song's name comes from.

But the story is more from the perspective of her partner at the time who, in the hospital room, he proposed to her, and they got married, and then, the next, day she passed away, and it was such a dear subject and such a personal story that I think we all just inherently knew that that one's done and it's perfect, and we don't wanna mess with it.

But it's always one that really hits home for us.

Yeah.

I mean, I can think of a handful of times right off the top of my head where I've like, couldn't make it through the song.

I had to leave 'cause I was too emotional.

- Every time it is sung for me, I draw up whoever I've just lost or if my friend has just lost someone, or I cannot help but just bring up somebody or be affected by the grief of someone near me every time we sing that song, which is exhausting, but also very powerful.

- Yeah.

- One, two, three, four.

[gentle folk music plays] [gentle folk music continues] ♪ Did you ever find the pool, Love, that was promised?

♪ ♪ Floating on your back, Love, help the pain subside ♪ ♪ Remembering the last words that were promised ♪ ♪ Of you and I bound in endless light ♪ ♪ Well, here I am and how I want you ♪ ♪ If it could only stay the same ♪ ♪ As it once was, as it once was ♪ ♪ Before you take the flight, Love, that I can't follow ♪ ♪ I'll wed you in your bed, Love, help the pain subside ♪ ♪ I'll be thrown into the darkness come tomorrow ♪ ♪ But for tonight, you'll be my bride ♪ ♪ Here I am and how I want you ♪ ♪ If it could only stay the same ♪ ♪ As it once was, as it once was ♪ [gentle folk music continues] [gentle folk music continues] ♪ I wish I had more strength, Love, I wish we had more time ♪ ♪ I'd have ripped apart the shadow that was inside you ♪ ♪ But as it is, I'm empty now ♪ ♪ But as it is, I'm empty now ♪ ♪ But as it is, I'm empty now ♪ ♪ Here I am and how I want you ♪ ♪ Here I am and how I miss you ♪ ♪ If it could only stay the same ♪ ♪ As it once was, as it once was ♪ ♪ As it once was ♪ - In what ways do you think that you are shaped by sound?

- I don't like to be on stage, and I don't like to be having focus put on me necessarily.

I'm very shy and introverted, and at a party, you know, I'm a wallflower.

I like to just kinda sit back.

I'm not trying to get on the dance floor, but music has always given me a voice to be part of that conversation, and to, like, if I'm at the party, I'm usually the one playing the music, which, I love to do that, and it's given me an identity that I can like, speak to people with, and like, say how I feel, say how I think through the music.

And so, to have that output for me, honestly, I don't know who I would be if I didn't have that.

- Yeah.

I don't know who you would be without music.

I can't divorce that from you.

That is definitely you, and I think, being a musician, set that aside, if I were to look back at my memories and my life and the shelf of memories I have in my brain, I think they're 99% affiliated with sound, affiliated with music.

Like, we're here, this has been great, and I'll probably remember most the hallway here in the PBS station that has this incredible reverb, just from walking in it and listening to someone speak, that's probably gonna be what the imprint.

And I think about my grandmother and my stepmom's mother, and my memory of her is standing in the Catholic church with red lipstick on, singing a high note at Christmas, and I just can see her singing the note.

I can see my grandfather on my mother's side singing in his deep, deep tenor voice, and when I think of Ryan and the band, my buddy, When I think of a memory, I immediately go back to when we were drinking too much around the campfire in those early years when we were camping, and he got a little leery in the eyes and he said, "Halli, I want you to play me an old tune on the fiddle."

- Civil war tune.

- "I wanna pretend that I'm in the Civil War and I'm sitting around the campfire."

See, when Ryan's not in the interview, I get to it.

- It was his birthday.

- It was for his birthday.

He wanted a civil war tune on the fiddle while he sat around the campfire so he could go there.

Which is him being shaped by sound.

He wants to venture through that, and I feel like all of my good memories and the memories that that make me feel whole and make me feel like who I am are all sonic memories.

There are visual ones, I'm sure, but there's always a sound.

Oh, there's that beautiful river, but I can hear the river in my... There's no word for mind's eye.

- Mind's ear?

- My ears.

My mind's ear.

My mind's ear.

- Mind's ear.

- I can hear it.

[all chuckle] - Well, thank you both again.

We really appreciate it.

And yeah, thanks a lot.

- Thank you.

- Yeah, thank you.

[gentle alternative folk music builds] [alternative folk music continues building] [alternative folk music continues] ♪ When I was courted by the loved and reckless ♪ ♪ I made my case to the highest names ♪ ♪ But they drowned me out in hallelujahs ♪ ♪ All deaf, all deaf with praise ♪ ♪ Just where you think I would, I found my circus ♪ ♪ In the dim light of a west-town bar ♪ ♪ Shouting benedictions out to feed our fire ♪ ♪ "Amen, amen, what men we are" ♪ [upbeat alternative folk music continues] ♪ And as the oak and the smoke rings paint you ♪ ♪ In a glow of Van Dyke Brown ♪ ♪ To see you dance so free, I can't heart nothing ♪ ♪ "Hey boys, hey boys, man down" ♪ ♪ You said I suit you like a farmer's armor ♪ ♪ And fields that call his mind away ♪ ♪ And how you heal from an orphan's sorrow ♪ ♪ As rains wash away the gray ♪ ♪ Ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma ma-ma-ma ♪ ♪ Ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma ma-ma-ma ♪ [upbeat alternative folk music continues] ♪ 'Cause I was lost like a politician ♪ ♪ Caught up in a game of tug of war ♪ ♪ When I found my feet slipping ♪ ♪ Found myself wishing ♪ ♪ I knew what it was that I ever stood for ♪ ♪ But then you cool, and I'm just my mother ♪ ♪ Try to reshape me, and I'm just my father ♪ ♪ And all of the songs I learned ♪ ♪ Before I forgot them ♪ [alternative folk music continues] ♪ Now when the day comes ♪ ♪ That I am lowered ♪ ♪ In a case of Van Dyke Brown ♪ ♪ Wanna hear my circus shouting out in benediction ♪ ♪ Wanna hear them singing all deaf with praise ♪ ♪ Wanna see you dancing in the glow of sundown ♪ ♪ All around, all around ♪ ♪ So free, so free ♪ ♪ All around my grave ♪ ♪ All around my grave ♪ ♪ Ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ♪ ♪ Ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ma-ma-ma ♪ [upbeat alternative folk music continues] [upbeat alternative folk music continues] [upbeat alternative folk music continues] [upbeat alternative folk music continues] [upbeat alternative folk music continues] - [Announcer 2] Thanks for joining us on "Shaped by Sound".

If you'd like to hear more of our discussion from today, you can find it over on our website, PBSNC.org/ShapedBySound, or you can find it on the PBS app.

[soft upbeat indie rock] [indie rock continues] - [Announcer] "Shaped by Sound" is made possible through support from Come Hear NC, a program of the North Carolina Arts Council within the North Carolina Department of Natural and Cultural Resources.