>> JUST AHEAD ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM THE MOVEMENT TO ADJUST LAW ENFORCEMENT FUNDING COULD BE GETTING SOME PUSHBACK FROM NORTH CAROLINA LAWMAKERS.

AND THE NAACP PUTS MORE LEGAL PRESSURE ON THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

♪ >> HELLO AND THANKS FOR JOINING US ON BLACK ISSUES FORUM I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THIS WEEK WE'RE STARTING WITH THE NAACP'S NEW LAWSUIT AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR BREAKING A 150 YEAR OLD LAW.

HIS FORMER LAWYER RUDY GIULIANI AND TWO EXTREMIST GROUPS ARE ALSO NAMED AS DEFENDANTS.

THE LAWSUIT ACCUSES THEM OF VIOLATING A PIECE OF LEGISLATION PASSED BACK IN 1871, MEANT TO FIGHT INTIMIDATION FROM THE KKK AGAINST LAWMAKERS.

>> WE HAVE STEPPED UP IN THIS MOMENT TO ENSURE THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND ALL THOSE WERE INVOLVED, ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIVITIES.

>> WELL, OF COURSE TRUMP'S RECENT IMPEACHMENT TRIAL ENDED WITH HIS ACQUITTAL.

HERE TO DISCUSS THIS AND SOME OF OUR OTHER HEADLINES ARE MARY C. CURTIS A COLUMNIST FOR ROLL CALL AND HOST OF THE EQUAL TIME PODCAST, MORRISVILLE TOWN COUNCILMAN STEVE RAO, AND LA'MESHIA WHITTINGTON DEPUTY DIRECTOR AT ADVANCE CAROLINA AND A COLLEGE PROFESSOR AT MEREDITH COLLEGE.

WELCOME TO ALL 3 OF YOU, SO HAPPY TO HAVE YOU WITH US TODAY.

LET'S GET STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT BY THE NAACP.

MARY CAN YOU SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT KIND OF HOW EFFECTIVE THIS IS GOING TO BE.

THEY PRACTICALLY SAID THAT THEY WERE INVITED TO FILE THIS LAWSUIT, SAYING QUOTE, RATHER QUOTING, MITCH MCCONNELL, WHO SAID WE HAVE A CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE HAVE CIVIL LITIGATION SO DO YOU THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE SUCCESS IN OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE COURTS THEN SAY WITH CONGRESS?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF SUCCESS THEY WILL HAVE, BUT IT'S SO INTERESTING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE WORDING OF THAT STATUE FROM 1871, WHICH WAS PASSED AFTER THE CIVIL WAR WHEN SO MANY STATES WERE TRYING TO COME BACK AND LIMIT THE RIGHTS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS AT THAT TIME, AND IT TALKS ABOUT VERY CLEARLY THAT IT'S INTENDED TO PROTECT AGAINST CONSPIRACIES IN VIOLENCE AND INTIMIDATION THAT SOUGHT TO PREVENT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS FROM DISCHARGING THEIR OFFICIAL DUTIES.

WELL LOOK WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6.

WHEN YOU SAW THIS MOB ATTACK CONGRESS, THE CAPITAL TO TRY TO KEEP THEM DISPATCHING THEIR DUTIES WHICH WAS TO CERTIFY THE VOTES OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

AND MITCH MCCONNELL, WHILE HE VOTED TO ACQUIT, IT WAS ON A TECHNICALITY HE SAID THAT IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY HIS SPEECH CLEARLY SAID THAT THE HOUSE MANAGERS MADE THEIR CASE.

AND HE TURNED IT OVER TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM SO I JUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY TO SEE THAT THE SAME PROBLEMS OF INTIMIDATION FOR THE RIGHTS OF CERTAIN GROUPS IT COMES UP AGAIN AND AGAIN.

I DEFINITELY THINK THAT THEY SHOULD INVESTIGATE IT, IT DOESN'T SOUND AS FARFETCHED AS SOME WOULD SAY BECAUSE THE WORDING OF THAT LAW ACTUALLY IS THERE TO KEEP FROM THE INTIMIDATION AND YOU SEE FOLKS LIKE THE FBI SAYING THAT THE GREATEST THREAT TO AMERICA RIGHT NOW, AS FAR AS TERRORISM, IS DOMESTIC NOT FOREIGN TERRORISM.

FROM THESE WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS.

>> THE DOMESTIC TERRORISM ISSUE IS REALLY VALID, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS CURIOUS THAT THEY HAD TO GO BACK TO A PRE-CIVIL WAR LAW AS THE BASIS OF THIS LAWSUIT.

STEVE, YOU KNOW ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THE REPRESENTATIVE WHO IS ALSO PURSUING THIS SUIT SAID ALONG WITH NAACP IS THAT THEY'RE NOT ONLY PURSUING IT ON THE GROUNDS OF THIS PARTICULAR LAW BUT THEY THEY INTEND TO PUT TRUMP OUT OF BUSINESS.

AND I JUST WONDERED, YOU KNOW IS IS THAT ONE OF THE GOALS, IS THAT A GOOD ENOUGH GOAL TO PURSUE THIS LAWSUIT.

>> WELL I PERSONALLY DO BELIEVE IT IS.

I MEAN AS MARY CURTIS SAID I THINK IT'S JUST YOU HAVE TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND IN THIS CASE THIS PRESIDENT AND HIS ADVISERS BY SAYING THAT THEY WEREN'T INVOLVED IN THAT THEY COULDN'T CONTROL IT, I MEAN HE'S THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND HIM AND RUDY GIULIANI, I THINK YOU CAN CONNECT THEM TO CONSPIRACY THAT THEY DID NOT STOP THIS AND TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TOO FAR TO SAY PUT HIM OUT OF BUSINESS, BECAUSE I THINK NOW THAT HE'S BEEN ACQUITTED HIGH.

HE CAN RUN AGAIN FOR THE PRESIDENCY, AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WHOEVER THAT PERSON IS, BUT IN THIS CASE, DONALD TRUMP THAT HE HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS AGAIN BECAUSE WE'RE SENDING A MESSAGE THAT IF ELECTIONS DON'T WORK OUT AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO WON, YOU DON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME OF YOUR ELECTION, WE'RE GOING TO STORM THE CAPITOL WE'RE GOING TO RIOT, WE'RE GOING TO INTIMIDATE WITH FEAR.

AND THIS IS NOT WHAT WE DO IN THE UNITED STATES.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TOO FAR, AND I DO THINK THAT THEY SHOULD TRY TO PUT HIM OUT OF BUSINESS, WHICH MEANS MAKE SURE THAT HE CAN'T RUN AGAIN, AND IF HE DOES, MAKE SURE THAT HE CAN NEVER DO THIS AGAIN.

>> LA WHAT DO YOU THINK IN TERMS OF THE MESSAGE THAT THIS SENDS REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS?

>> ABSOLUTELY AS STEVE ALREADY MENTIONED, WE HAVE TO SHOW A STRONG MESSAGE NOT ONLY FOR OUR FEDERAL AND CONGRESSIONAL LEVELS, BUT ALSO LOCALLY.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOWN BALLOT RACES, THE FACT THAT IT IS A MUNICIPAL YEAR, OUR COMMUNITIES ARE LOOKING FOR A STRONG MESSAGE TO SAY THAT WE MATTER, THAT OUR DEMOCRACY MATTERS, THAT SYSTEMATIC RACISM THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY FACING AND HAVE BEEN IS IT IS THE TAPESTRY THIS COUNTRY WE NEED TO PUSH BACK ON ALSO THE LEGISLATORS IN OUR STATE THAT HAVE BEEN EMBOLDENED BY THIS PREVIOUS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO DO SUCH AGREGIOUS JUST ACTIONS AS SENATE BILL 100 THAT JUST CAME THROUGH ON MONDAY.

AND SO WHEN WE SEE THE CERTAIN ACTIONS, WE SEE THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO MEET, SOME WOULD SAY FIRE FIRE.

WELL THIS IS FIRE AND WE HAVE TO HOLD THE LINE BECAUSE EVEN WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION COMMUNITIES ARE STILL SUFFERING.

OUR PANDEMIC HASN'T ENDED, AND SO STRONG MESSAGING IS NEEDED TO PUSH BACK.

>> A NEWLY FILED BILL IN NORTH CAROLINA'S GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION THIS WEEK.

SB 100 WOULD IMPACT THE FUNDING CITIES AND COUNTIES RECEIVE FROM THE STATE IF THEY DECREASE FUNDING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT BY A CERTAIN AMOUNT.

CALLS TO DEFUND THE POLICE GREW LOUDER AFTER THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD SPARKING PROTESTS LIKE THIS ONE IN RALEIGH.

THE BILL STILL HAS SEVERAL HURDLES TO CLEAR BEFORE IT HITS GOVERNOR COOPER'S DESK.

LA, YOU WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SB 100, WHAT'S THE REAL MESSAGE THAT YOU GET FROM THIS ACT TO TRY TO CONTROL FUNDING BASED ON HOW FUNDS HAPPENED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL?

>> PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

IT'S A MANIPULATION TACTIC, AND IT PLACES OUR LOCAL ELECTEDS IN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE AS WE SAY IN THE SOUTH.

IT IS MAKING OUR LOCAL ELECTEDS CHOOSE BETWEEN LISTENING TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

THE VOTERS IN THEIR COMMUNITY THAT CAME OUT IN MASS FOLLOWING AS YOU ALREADY STATED, THE MURDERS OF GEORGE FLOYD AND BREONNA TAYLOR COMMUNITY SAID WE WANT TO REASSESS POLICE REFORMATION THROUGH THE BUDGET AKA, DEFUND THE POLICE.

THAT IS THE TITLE THE COMMUNITY HAS CREATED AND ADVOCATES RIGHT TO JUST TALK TO THE BUDGET, AND SO THAT IS WHAT OUR LOCAL ELECTED LEADERS HAVE HEARD FOR THE PAST ALMOST A YEAR.

THAT WAS THE MODERN DAY CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, THE LARGEST ON RECORD GLOBALLY LAST YEAR.

THIS IS THE NEXT ITERATION OF OUR CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

AND SO WHEN WE SEE THAT OUR LEGISLATORS ARE PRIORITIZING THE POLICE BUDGET OVER THE COMMUNITY OUTCRY, THAT'S ALSO PLACING THESE LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE CONSTITUENTS AND THEIR VOTERS IN A VERY CRITICAL MUNICIPAL ELECTION YEAR THAT WE HOPE WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN, AND CHOOSING THE FUNDING THAT THESE COMMUNITIES NEED FROM THE STATE OUR TAX DOLLARS, BY THE WAY, TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR COMMUNITY IS SUPPORTED IN THE MIDST OF A PANDEMIC IN THE MIDST OF HISTORICAL HOUSELESSNESS, EVICTIONS, UTILITY SHUT-OFFS, THE DISENFRANCHISEMENT THAT OCCURED LAST YEAR DURING VOTING, THIS IS WHAT OUR LOCAL ELECTEDS ARE HAVING TO CHOOSE AND PLACING THEM IN THIS POSITION IS UNFAIR, UNDEMOCRATIC, AND IT DOESN'T ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO OUR HARD EARNED TAX DOLLARS ARE GOING TO PAY THESE POLICE BUDGETS.

>> STEVE THIS ISSUE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S EXCLUSIVE TO THE INTERESTS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE RESPONSE IS, THE OR THE CARE IS FOR REMOVING THESE MONUMENTS THEY'VE CREATED A FENCE FOR OTHER MINORITY GROUPS.

>> WELL, I THINK YET THE PUBLIC POLICY NEEDS TO BE THAT WE CAN'T HAVE ANY MONUMENTS UP THAT SHOWCASE INDIVIDUALS IN OUR COUNTRY THAT FOUGHT FOR RACISM, SLAVERY AND DIVIDING AMERICA AND SO I THINK THE FIRST THING IS THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE THAT WE DON'T ALLOW THESE MONUMENTS TO BE LIFTED UP THERE IN PUBLIC AND I THINK WE HAVE TO ALSO HOLD ALL AMERICANS TO THE SAME STANDARD.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LIST OF YOU KNOW ALL OF THE INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE STEERING THROUGH THE CAPITAL THAT WE'RE KICKING IN THE SPEAKER'S MIRROR.

THAT HAD ALEXANDRIA CORTEZ HIDING UNDER HER DESK AFRAID SHE WAS GOING TO BE KILLED AND EVEN SPEAKER PELOSI EMOTIONAL WORRYING FOR HER OWN LIFE.

WE DIDN'T SEE TEAR GAS, WE DIDN'T SEE LOTS OF ARRESTS AT LEAST I DIDN'T SEE THAT ON TV MAYBE IT DID HAPPEN.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL MINORITIES AND ALL INDIVIDUALS ARE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARD AS ANY AMERICAN, AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MOVING FORWARD.

THIS IS TREASON AND ANYONE TO DID THIS SHOULD GO TO PRISON AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SPEAK IN BEHALF OF ANY ORGANIZATION EVER AGAIN, I DON'T CARE WHETHER IT'S THE PRESIDENT OR ANY CITIZEN OR NATION.

AND THIS AFFECTS ALL MINORITIES AND ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR.

IT HAS TO STOP.

>> WELL, HOPEFULLY, WE'LL GET TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT INEQUITY IN TERMS OF PUBLIC RESPONSE TO WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CAPITOL AND PUBLIC RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE PROTESTS THAT HAPPENED DURING THE SUMMER BUT I WANT TO STICK WITH SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS A CRITICAL ISSUE BECAUSE LAWMAKERS ARE SAYING IT IS.

WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS RIGHT NOW IN COVID.

MY QUESTION LA, IS THIS THE TIME TO FOCUS ON DEFUNDING OR REDUCING RESOURCES FOR POLICE WHEN THERE'S A GREAT NEED IN EVERY COMMUNITY FOR THE THAT KIND OF RESOURCE AND OTHERS?

>> MM-HM.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY THE TIME AND THE REASON I SAY THAT IS BECAUSE LAST YEAR IN THE MIDST OF A PANDEMIC WE HAD TO FACE THAT RACIAL VIOLENCE, WAS A BIT MORE DANGEROUS THAN THE PANDEMIC, WHICH IS WHY WE SAW FOLKS TAKE TO THE STREETS AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEFUNDING THE POLICE, LET'S BE VERY CLEAR, WE OFTENTIMES HEAR PART OF THE ARGUMENT ON BOTH SIDES TO SAY OKAY DEFUND THE POLICE, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN TERMS OF RESOURCES?

THOSE RESOURCES CAN BE ASSESSED TO BE ALLOCATED TO COMMUNITY INTERVENTIONISTS A LICENSED THERAPIST AND DOMESTIC PSYCHOLOGISTS THAT CAN SUPPORT THE RESOLUTIONS THAT WE NEED IN THE RESTORING OF JUSTICE THAT WE NEED IN COMMUNITIES THAT WOULD PREVENT HOUSELESSNESS, THAT WOULD PREVENT THE ATROCITIES OF PANDEMIC AND EXACERBATING HEALTH DISPARITIES.

LET'S BE VERY CLEAR.

JUST LAST YEAR WHEN WE WERE PROTESTING DEFUND THE POLICE, THERE WAS ALSO A DEATH INVESTIGATION RECORD THAT WAS ALMOST PASSED IN THE SENATE BILL AT THE SAME TIME THAT FOLKS WERE PROTESTING.

THIS INVESTIGATION RECORD WOULD HAVE LITERALLY HIDDEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH IF SOMEONE WOULD HAVE DIED IN CUSTODY IN A PRISON OR JAIL FACILITY ALL THE WAY THROUGH.

WHY IS THAT A CONCERN?

BECAUSE WHILE THE COMMUNITY WAS PROTESTING AGAINST THIS VERY ISSUE, IT WAS ABOUT TO PASS AGAIN FROM OUR LEGISLATURE.

SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT - WE CAN DO BOTH AND.

WE NEED RESOURCES TO ADDRESS HOUSELESSNESS, WE NEED RESOURCES TO ADDRESS HEALTH DISPARITIES, BUT WE CAN ALSO DO THAT WITH THE EGREGIOUS BUDGETS THAT ARE SET ASIDE FOR POLICING BUDGETS THAT ARE NOT ADEQUATELY ACTUALLY PROTECTING OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND I'LL SAY THIS ONE LAST THING.

HISTORICALLY THE BLACK CODES THAT FOLLOWED THE ABOLISHMENT OF SLAVERY WAS INSTITUTED IN ORDER TO POLICE BLACK PEOPLE.

THERE WERE EGREGIOUS LAWS SUCH AS IT WAS UNLAWFUL FOR BLACK FOLKS TO BE UNEMPLOYED, FOR AFRICAN AMERICANS TO EVEN CONGREGATE IN COMMUNITY WITHOUT BEING IN THE PRESENCE OF A WHITE PERSON.

THIS SET UP POLICING STRUCTURE THAT IS STILL EMBEDDED IN THE POLICIES TODAY.

IF WE'RE NOT OVERHAULING THESE ANTIQUATED POLICIES THAT WERE PRIOR TO THE JIM CROW ERA WE CAN'T EXPECT THEM TO ADEQUATELY RESOLVE OR TO PRIORITIZE BLACK COMMUNITIES AND COMMUNITIES' SAFETY AND THAT IS A PRIORITY WHEN IT COMES TO RESOURCES, WE HAVE TO LIVE TO RECEIVE THOSE RESOURCES.

>> THERE'S SO MANY ISSUES THAT KIND OF CONVERGE TOGETHER WHEN WE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE SUMMER AND WE TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED ON THE CAPITOL.

WE'VE MOVED PAST THE ELECTIONS WE'VE MOVED PAST THE INAUGURATION, WE'VE NOW MOVED PAST IMPEACHMENT AND STEVE, YOU KNOW NOW WHERE DO YOU THINK A LOT OF THE FOCUS REALLY NEEDS TO DRILL DOWN ON?

>> JUST IN TERMS OF THE TURBULENCE IN THE COUNTRY, I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT PRIORITIES, ANY CRISIS YOU GOT TO STABILIZE THE OPERATIONS AND THEN YOU GOT TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'RE GOING TO BREAK AWAY AND GET BACK TO NORMAL, SO I THINK THE FIRST THING THAT'S CRITICAL IS VACCINATING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE MAKING SURE THAT WE GET MASS VACCINATION SITES SO WE GET HERD IMMUNITY.

ONCE WE DO THAT, IT'S GOING TO GET EASIER TO BUILD THE ECONOMY BACK.

LOAN FORGIVENESS, WHAT WHICH WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT MAYBE LATER TODAY, HELPING PUT MORE MONEY IN THE HANDS OF AMERICANS WITH THE STIMULUS RELIEF, LOANS TO BUSINESSES, AND THEN OF COURSE MANY OF THE OTHER EXECUTIVE ORDERS ADDRESSING SYSTEMIC RACISM, CLIMATE CHANGE, IMMIGRATION REFORM, BUT I THINK IT HAS TO BE -- THERE'S BEEN NO PRESIDENT THAT'S DEALT WITH MORE CRISIS IN ONE TIME THAN JOSEPH R BIDEN.

THE ONLY ONE THAT WE CAN REMEMBER HISTORY IS MAYBE LINCOLN WHO SAVED THE UNION AND OBVIOUSLY FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT WHO WAS DEALING WITH THE GREAT DEPRESSION AND WORLD WAR 2.

>> YOU KNOW, STEVE I APPRECIATE THAT LIFT BECAUSE I DO WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT STUDENT LOAN, FORGIVENESS AND IN FACT THE IDEA OF STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS HAS PICKED UP MOMENTUM AGAIN IN RECENT MONTHS.

BUT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS MAKING IT CLEAR THAT IF THAT HAPPENS IT WON'T BE FOR THE $50,000 THAT'S BEEN PROPOSED.

>> IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU GO TO A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY, OR A PUBLIC UNIVERSITY.

IT DEPENDS ON THE IDEA THAT I SAY TO A COMMUNITY I'M GOING TO FORGIVE THE DEBT, THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT FOR PEOPLE WHO'VE GONE TO HARVARD AND YALE... >> WELL, THOSE COMMENTS WHICH CAME DURING A CNN TOWN HALL WE'RE NOT RECEIVED VERY WELL AT ALL.

IN FACT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS HE DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO WRITE OFF ANY MORE THAN $10,000 IN FEDERAL STUDENT LOAN DEBT.

FEDERAL DATA SHOWS THAT MORE THAN A 3RD OF ALL BORROWERS OWE LESS THAN THAT.

SO TAKING IT BACK TO MY PANEL I WANT TO OPEN UP WITH YOU MARY, BECAUSE PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS A PRETTY STRONG APPROVAL RATING RIGHT NOW.

WHAT KIND OF A DENT CAN THIS THING PUT IN THAT APPROVAL RATING?

>> WELL YOU CAN SEE HE'S TRYING HE SAID FOR THIS UNITY AND HE'S GOING TO DO WHAT HE CAN AND HE'S TRYING FOR COMPROMISE ON THIS, BUT SOME ARE SAYING THAT THE PREMISE THAT ONLY A CERTAIN KIND OF STUDENT GOES TO ELITE SCHOOLS AND OTHERS GO TO STATE SCHOOLS, WELL THAT FAULTY, BECAUSE THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF STUDENTS THAT GO TO SCHOOLS LIKE HARVARD AND YALE AND AS WELL AS STATE SCHOOLS.

AND SO THE STUDENTS ARE SAYING YES, IT WILL HELP BUT FOR SOME AND WE SEE THAT BLACK AND BROWN STUDENTS IN PARTICULAR ARE REALLY HIT WITH THESE HUGE LOAN DEBTS SO THEY ARE THE ONES WITH ALL OF THIS - SO THEY WILL BE AFFECTED, AND THEY'RE SAYING, SOME ARE SAYING WELL YOU'RE PUNISHING PEOPLE WHO'VE MANAGED TO PAY OFF THESE DEBTS BUT IT'S NOT BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM OR THEY'RE PROFLIGATE IT'S BECAUSE MANY HAVE SAID PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE POOR OR A MINORITY STUDENT EDUCATION IS THE WAY OUT, SO YOU TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY THEN YOU PILE UP THESE DEBTS AND IT'S REALLY HARD TO PAY BACK.

SO THEY'RE SEEING A LITTLE HELP IS FINE, BUT YOU KNOW, WE HAVE THESE DEBTS THAT ARE REALLY HURTING US AND WE NEED TO ACTUALLY GET SOME LOAN FORGIVENESS.

>> IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM FOR A LOT OF FOLKS COMING OUT OF SCHOOL AND I THINK THAT COMMENT ABOUT NOT WANTING TO TO PAY FOR THE EDUCATION OF PEOPLE WHO'RE COMING OUT OF HARVARD AND SO FORTH IS REALLY INTERESTING THAT YOU BROUGHT UP, BECAUSE YOU'D HAVE ALL KINDS OF STUDENTS ATTENDING AND THAT'S QUITE A TUITION TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH, AND LA I WANTED TO GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON, WHAT KIND OF DEBT THIS MIGHT BE PUTTING IN HIS APPROVAL RATING, PARTICULARLY AMONG MILLENNIALS?

>> SO LET'S THINK ABOUT THE FRAMING IN WHICH WE TURN THE TIDES ON THE HISTORICAL ELECTION, AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTERS CAME OUT EN MASSE IN MILLIONS TO SUPPORT THIS ADMINISTRATION BASED ON THE PLATFORM, THERE WERE YOU KNOW MANY ELEVATIONS, BUT ONE WAS DEFINITELY STUDENT DEBT RELIEF.

AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PANDEMIC, MANY STUDENTS WERE DISPLACED.

WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE HOMELESS AND HOUSELESS RATES THAT ACTUALLY INCREASED DUE TO STUDENT DISPLACEMENTS SO FOLKS WERE TRYING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT STUDENTS WHO WERE GOING BACK HOME TO BECOME FRANCHISE WORKERS CORPORATE WORKERS, ESSENTIAL WORKERS THAT WE'RE FACING THE BRUNT OF COVID-19 CONTRACTIONS, AND IN OUR STATE WE DIDN'T HAVE OSHA PROTECTION A CLASS FOR COVID-19.

THESE ARE THE BEARS ALREADY IMPACTING STUDENTS WHO'RE FACING STUDENT DEBT.

AND SO VOTING AND TURNING OUT EN MASSE TO SUPPORT THIS NEW PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATION WAS THE HOPE OF SAYING HERE COMES RELIEF, I DIDN'T EVEN QUALIFY FOR THE STIMULUS CHECK FOR MOST COLLEGE STUDENTS THAT DIDN'T OCCUR, SO AS A PROFESSOR I HAVE TO ENGAGE OUR STUDENTS DIDN'T RECEIVE THE STIMULUS CHECKS SO HERE IS THE HOPE TO RECEIVE THAT RELIEF IN A DIFFERENT FORM AND NOW IT'S NOT HERE?

IT'S NOT COMING?

IT'S VERY DISINGENUOUS.

AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT BLACK YOUTH VOTER TURNOUT, NORTH CAROLINA WAS LOWER THAN PREVIOUS YEARS, IT'S NOT DUE TO APATHY, IS ALSO DUE TO THE AFOREMENTIONED LIST OF BARRIERS IMPEDIMENTS AND ILLNESSES THAT ARE NOW CONTRACTED AND EXACERBATED DUE TO COVID-19 AND THIS RELIEF WOULD HAVE GONE A LONG WAY AND STILL CAN, WE CAN RECTIFY THIS, I'M SAYING THIS TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO SUPPORT THESE STUDENTS TO SURVIVE THE PANDEMIC AND GET THEIR EDUCATION AND BE DEBT FREE.

>> STEVE LET ME QUICKLY GET YOUR RESPONSE ON THAT AS WELL.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW I THINK THAT $50,000 -- $10,000 IS NOT A DROP IN THE BUCKET.

I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'VE GOT TO FORGIVE MORE LOANS AND I THINK ON THIS ONE, I WOULD AGREE WITH THE PROFESSOR, THE PRESIDENT NEEDS TO DO WHAT HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DO, GET THE BUILD BACK BETTER, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO GO BACK SMARTER, AND I THINK IT COMES DOWN TO FOCUS.

I KNOW DOCTORS IN THE TRIANGLE THAT ARE GETTING STIMULUS CHECKS BEFORE THE STIMULUS RELIEF BILL AND THEN PEOPLE OUT THERE MAKING LESS THAN $60,000 THAT AREN'T GETTING CHECKS.

SO FOR ME I THINK THE PRIORITY NEEDS TO BE MAXIMIZING THE AMOUNT OF LOAN FORGIVENESS, $50,000 LOAN FORGIVENESS OR MORE COULD BE A LIFE CHANGER FOR SOMEONE OUT OF COLLEGE OR GOING TO GRADUATE SCHOOL.

SO THEY CAN SAVE UP EMERGENCY FUNDS, THEY CAN FREE UP THEIR CASH, THEY CAN ALSO INVEST IN THEIR SAVINGS.

BUT THERE'S TOO MANY AMERICANS LIVING CHECK TO CHECK.

SO I THINK ON THIS ONE, I WOULD SAY THE PRESIDENT NEEDS TO FOCUS IN HIS EFFORTS ON ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND RESILIENCY FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

THE STIMULUS BILL, THERE'S SO MUCH IT DOES.

THEY COULD CUT SOME STUFF AND PHASE IT IN MY OPINION.

>> WELL, I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU STEVE, BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO TURN AND TALK ABOUT A NATIONAL ISSUE, THE WHITE HOUSE IS ROLLING OUT A PROPOSAL THAT WOULD OVERHAUL US IMMIGRATION LAWS WHILE ACKNOWLEDGING, PASSING IT MAY BE TOUGH.

AMONG THE PROPOSED CHANGES GIVING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP, EXPANDED VISAS AND FEWER RESTRICTIONS FOR FAMILIES.

ACCORDING TO THE PEW RESEARCH CENTER, THERE WERE AT LEAST 4.2 MILLION BLACK IMMIGRANTS LIVING IN THE U.S. AS OF 2016.

THOSE IMMIGRANTS AND THEIR CHILDREN ARE ABOUT ONE 5TH OF OUR COUNTRY'S OVERALL BLACK POPULATION, AND STEVE, I KNOW THAT YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON THIS IN FACT YOU HAVE AN OP-ED THAT APPEARED IN A ON WRAL AND I WANTED TO ASK YOU IN ADDITION TO SOME OF THESE POLICY MEASURES IS THERE SOME WORK THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN TERMS OF PUBLIC EDUCATION TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT ONLY ARE THE DOORS BEING OPEN BUT THEY'RE BEING OPEN WITH WELCOME.

>> ABSOLUTELY DEBORAH AND I MEAN I THINK THAT FIRST OF ALL WE NEED TO EDUCATE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ALL AMERICANS IS THAT A SOLID IN COMPREHENSIVE AND SMART IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IS CRITICAL TO THE ECONOMIC SUCCESS OF OUR NATION AND NORTH CAROLINA.

FOR ALL AMERICANS.

I MEAN, JUST THINK ABOUT IT, A 5TH OF OUR SOFTWARE PROGRAMMERS, MANY ARE FROM FOREIGN COUNTRIES IN SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING A 3RD OF OUR AGRICULTURAL WORKERS.

A 3RD OF OUR CONSTRUCTION WORKERS.

AND THESE ARE IMMIGRANTS THAT COMING FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE AND SO THIS BILL ACTUALLY ACCELERATES THE PASS TO CITIZENSHIP FOR SKILL BASED H-1B GREEN CARD HOLDERS MANY FROM INDIA, BUT 40,000 IN THE TRIANGLE IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO GET LEGAL STATUS, AND THEY BRING IN ABOUT 32 MILLION TO OUR ECONOMY.

THAT COULD GO UP BY 18% IF WE ACCELERATE THE PATH, SO IT'S CRITICALLY IMPORTANT BY WELCOMING PEOPLE IN FROM AROUND THE WORLD, THE PRODUCING TO THE AMERICAN ECONOMY THAT ARE CREATING JOBS AND THE ECONOMY AND THE NEW ECONOMY, IT'S CRITICAL.

AND SO YOU KNOW WE HAVE TO EDUCATE OUR LEGISLATORS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT AND I'LL END WITH THIS; WE WOULDN'T ZOOM WE WOULDN'T GOOGLE WE WOULDN'T BUY A TESLA, WE WOULDN'T BE WATCHING SPACE X.

WE WOULDN'T HAVE ANY OF THESE THINGS IF IT WASN'T FOR IMMIGRANTS.

AND DO WE WANT THOSE ENTREPRENEURS GOING SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD?

>> YOU KNOW YOU MAKE SOME REALLY GOOD POINTS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH AND MARY, I WANT TO JUST CONTINUE WITH YOU, YOU'VE ACTUALLY ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE ALSO IN YOUR COVERAGE ON THE EQUAL TIME PODCAST A REALLY GREAT CONVERSATION YOU HAD WITH CECILIA MUNOZ AND WANTED YOU TO SHARE JUST A LITTLE BIT OF SOME OF THE THE GREAT TAKEAWAYS WHERE THE THINGS THAT YOU WANTED TO KNOW FROM HER ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

>> YEAH, IT WAS GREAT CAUSE SHE WAS AN OFFICIAL, THE FIRST HISPANIC WOMAN IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO HOLD THAT POST AS A DOMESTIC POLICY SENIOR LEADER, AND YES, WE TALKED ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES, AND YOU KNOW IT'S BEEN USED - IMMIGRATION AS THIS DEMAGOGIC ISSUE.

WE SAW THE FORMER PRESIDENT, THE PREVIOUS PRESIDENT, START HIS CAMPAIGN TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO AS RAPISTS AND SO FORTH, AND THEY REALLY CUT THE NUMBER I IMMIGRANTS LEGALLY ALLOWED TO THE UNITED STATES LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

WE SAW THE EFFORTS FOR THE WALL AND ALSO CHILDREN IN CAGES SO SHE HAD ADVISED ALSO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PRE ELECTION AND TALKED ABOUT ALL THE DIFFERENT WAYS THAT THEY ARE OPENING UP THE CAPS ON IMMIGRATION AND ALSO THERE'S SO MANY ISSUES THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE ON WHEN IT COMES TO THIS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE DREAMERS DACA RECIPIENTS WHICH MOST PEOPLE REALLY DO WANT THEM TO HAVE AN ACCELERATED PATH TO CITIZENSHIP SINCE MOST WERE BROUGHT TO THIS COUNTRY WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG AND THIS IS THE ONLY COUNTRY THEY KNOW.

OF COURSE AS STEVE WAS TALKING ABOUT WE DO HAVE THESE A BLACK IMMIGRANTS, AND AS USUAL, OF COURSE THEY ARE BEARING THE BRUNT OF SOME OF THE HARSHER POLICIES.

BUT YES, THESE ARE ISSUES, THEY MIGHT HAVE TO BREAK UP SOME OF THE IMMIGRATION PIECES OF THE BILL, BUT WE DO SEE THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND STEVE SAID THESE ARE FOLKS WERE ALREADY GIVING TO OUR COMMUNITIES, TAXES, AND SO FORTH, AND SO IT IS PRETTY EXCITING TO SEE THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ACCELERATED SCHEDULE TO HAVE FOLKS WHO ARE HERE UNDOCUMENTED OR NOT CITIZENS AS THEY'RE CALLED NOW IN THE NEW BILL TO GET THAT PATH IN EIGHT YEARS TO CITIZENSHIP.

AND SO IT WILL BE I THINK -- IT IS EDUCATION, AS STEVE SAID BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN SO MANY FALSEHOODS PUT OUT ABOUT WHAT THE IMMIGRANTS DO BRING TO THIS COUNTRY, BUT I DO BELIEVE WHEN YOU DO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC AND AND OF COURSE THEY ARE PART OF OUR COMMUNITIES NOW.

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND I WANT TO BRING I WANT TO GET LA'MESHIA IN HERE FOR A COMMENT BECAUSE SHE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE INTERACTION WITH OUR YOUNGER GENERATION.

I JUST WANTED TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK ON WHAT'S BEING TALKED ABOUT IS THERE EXCITEMENT ALSO ABOUT IMMIGRATION POLICY AMONG YOUNGER PEOPLE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'M HONORED TO BE PART OF A FORMATION CALLED THE NORTH CAROLINA BLACK AND BROWN POLICY NETWORK, AND IT'S ONE OF THE FIRST NETWORKS THAT IS EXPLICITLY BLACK AND BROWN, ORGANIZATIONS AND LEADERS HAVE COME TOGETHER, AND SO SOME OF EVEN THE UNFAIR UNJUST IMMIGRATION LAWS ARE COMING THROUGH SUCH AS SENATE BILL 101 AND OTHER SUCH SENATE BILLS THAT ARE PUSHING BACK AGAINST PROTECTIONS ON OUR COMMUNITIES WE'RE IN A JOINT EFFORT TOGETHER AND THAT'S WHAT WE SAW LET'S AGAIN USE LAST YEAR'S IDEA REPRESENTATION OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS.

THERE IS NO BIPOC AGENDA WITHOUT THE BIPOC PEOPLE AND WE ARE IN ALIGNMENT WITH IF ONE OF US ARE OPRESSED, ALL OF US ARE OPPRESSED.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF HURRICANE AND NATURAL DISASTERS BECAUSE VOTING, THIS PANDEMIC, AND HURRICANE SEASON, THEY ARE COLLIDE, AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO EXPECT THAT THIS YEAR AGAIN.

MOST OF OUR FARM WORKERS, OUR STUDENTS WHO ARE WORKING DILIGENTLY EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA, THEY ARE IMPACTED BY THESE HURRICANES.

WHEN WE SAW MIGRANT COMMUNITIES IMPACTED ON OCRACOKE ISLAND.

JUST A YEAR AND A HALF AGO THEY WERE STRANDED ON THE ISLAND BECAUSE THEY WERE DEVALUED.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THE TAPESTRY OF THIS COUNTRY AND EVERY LIFE MATTERS.

AND SO THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE HEARING ON THE GROUND IS WE ARE ONE.

WE ARE TOGETHER.

IN ONE MOVE FOR CIVIL HUMAN RIGHTS IS A MOVE FOR ALL OF US TO ACTUALLY CREATE THE PRO DEMOCRACY AGENDA THAT WE NEED.

>> AND FINALLY IT SEEMS THAT THAT THINGS ARE COMING TOGETHER.

IT'S THE UNITY THAT WE'RE ALL HOPING FOR.

LA'MESHIA WHITTINGTON, STEVE RAO, MARY C CURTIS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS AND FOR BEING HERE.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO REACH US, YOU CAN DO SO ON TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM JUST USE THE HASHTAG NC BLACK ISSUES YOU CAN ALSO FIND OUR OTHER EPISODES ON PBSNC.ORG/BLACKISSUESFORUM I'M DEBORAH HOLT-NOEL.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

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