- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, from the governor to county leaders, the upcoming November election means more than just who will be our next president.

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We're asking the questions, who are these candidates and what do they stand for?

Stay tuned as we break down the issues and spotlight the races that could transform our neighborhoods.

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[upbeat electronic music] ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm your host, Kenia Thompson.

Well, North Carolina is at a pivotal crossroads, and this year's gubernatorial race, along with other key county decisions, could dramatically shift the course of our black communities.

Many counties are looking at potential shifts in leadership, and some are asking what those changes might mean.

We've got a lot to unpack.

So we're gonna get right into it.

I wanna introduce our guest for today.

Our first guest is a co-host of WUNC's Due South, a local source for news information and perspectives from across North Carolina and the South.

I wanna welcome Leoneda Inge, and joining her is a familiar face on our show, our friend and political analyst, Steve Rao.

Welcome to the show.

- Good morning.

- Thank you.

- Of course.

- Pleasure to be here.

- Thanks for being here.

I wanna start off with the governor's race.

It's been hot nationally, maybe even internationally, who knows?

But we've seen a leak of information that has come out about Mark Robinson.

We know that Mark Robinson, Josh Stein, are both running for this seat, but as of recent, we've heard details about internet activity stemming from about 10, maybe 15 years ago, at this point.

Mark Robinson has coined himself in the past as black Nazi.

He's in support of slavery, and this has really damaged his campaign.

We've seen plenty of his campaign leaders step down.

He is not having much support.

I'd love to hear from both of you.

Leoneda, what are your thoughts around how damaging this has been to his campaign?

- Well, I think it's been very damaging, and he knows that.

I was getting calls not too long ago, and they were saying, Mark Robinson's wife is speaking for him now, and because we know it's too late for him to remove himself from the ballot, and I always watched this race even before this, because it was remarkable that even a black man had gotten this far in a gubernatorial race in the country, and it was so really, wow.

Now I've never gotten the chance to interview him, even though I've tried.

- Same, I've, yeah.

- You know?

- Yeah.

- In public radio, you sent out feelers.

So I never got the chance to actually interview him, but he knows and his staff, we know, knows that he's in a lot of trouble in this race.

Even the latest poll numbers show that Josh Stein has him by double digits, and also the latest numbers from the Elon University poll, it actually said that 78% of black voters support Stein.

So it's not even really about color.

It's what's coming out of your mouth, and so he's in trouble.

- That's a great point.

That's a great point, Steve?

- Yeah, I mean, when you go back when this whole thing started.

I mean, first of all, let's put this in perspective.

This is the most important office in the state, the chief executive officer CEO of the eighth largest state in the union.

You're dealing with healthcare, education, jobs, AI, the future jobs, public safety, the environment, and for two years, we never really heard Lieutenant Governor Robinson talk about those issues.

We heard a lot of the negative comments, people need killing, a woman shouldn't lift up her skirt, all of that.

So we already, I think, independence and undecided were leaning towards Stein, but I think these recent statements have really, it's like the Titanic.

It's a sinking ship.

They've hit the iceberg.

People are resigning from his campaign.

Even senior Republicans like United States Senator Thom Tillis were saying that the governor's race is pretty much over.

So I think it's fair to say that Stein is gonna win.

I think he has double digit lead in the poll.

So he'd be packing up his boxes, and we'll have a new governor come November 5th, a governor elect, and he'll be sworn in in January most likely, but I think at the end of the day, the question becomes, how did Robinson get this far?

Why did this stuff not come up sooner?

And what will the effect be?

We'll probably talk about it in a few minutes about what effect will this governor's race have on the election?

- That's what I was gonna ask.

- Yeah, I can answer that, but we can-- - So Trump pretty much kind of cherry picked him, and has supported him since he's put in his candidacy.

How could that trickle down to the broader election of the president?

- Well, I'll take a stab at this, but I mean, I think there's a couple of things to observe.

I mean, number one, I think that there could be, potentially, a down ballot effect with Stein.

If he does so well, will those voters then go down the ballot and these other council of state racers, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General.

Auditor, we're gonna talk about some of these races, labor commissioner, the courts, congress, even the legislature, that would help Stein as a governor not have to deal with the super majority right?

The second thing is the Harris campaign, right?

I mean, North Carolina is at play and if they win North Carolina, she'll become the next President of the United States.

Well, as Governor Cooper has said, there's a lot of energy at the top of the ticket with Black voters.

She's the first Asian American, Asian American voters.

We've talked about that on the radio, And then you couple that with this down ballot effect in the state that Trump only won by 1.5%.

You've gotta think the Trump folks are worried that this race was, y'know, like, on the 20 yard line, I love football analogies, they're about to throw the ball in the end zone, and all of a sudden now the Democrats have the ball.

So I think that's the thing to look for is, y'know, or is it not gonna really matter with the presidential election and are people just gonna say, "forget Robinson, we're gonna vote for Trump"?

We'll find out in a few weeks.

- Well, I'm sure Stein and a lot of top Democrats nationally and in the state would hope it would go that way, wouldn't they?

But we know North Carolina voters.

They will vote for Roy Cooper for governor and Mark Robinson for lieutenant governor and split- - Split ticket.

- Split the ticket every time.

And, y'know, I've been doing stories and talking to folks, say, like, in Georgia and where Georgia, for example, has a Republican governor but two Democratic US senators.

And then flip North Carolina, y'know, we have a Democratic governor and... People vote, I think they're a little bit smarter than we think they are.

They vote for who they want in office.

- [Host] Right, and not just a straight ticket.

- We forget 42% of our state, I heard Wesley Harris say this in an event, he's the Democratic nominee for treasurer, 42% of our state is from rural North Carolina.

So that's the thing is, y'know, it may not matter to these people in these other surrounding counties and suburban areas.

So I agree with you, Leoneda, I think it's still a close race, but they shouldn't take it for granted that just because Robinson's gone down that they're all gonna win.

- Right, so do you think Josh Stein is kind of just riding on the coattails of all this news or is he being effective with his campaign?

- Oh, well, you go ahead.

- No, I'm just going by sometimes the political ads I see.

They're very laid back.

They may not even show him in the ad.

He's been pretty smart about that, just quiet and really letting Mark Robinson speak for himself, ad after ad.

- Right, yeah.

Go ahead?

- I think he's been effective.

- [Leoneda] But that has been effective.

- No, but I think that, I mean, I think that he's been trained by, y'know, a great governor, the protege of Governor Cooper.

He's, y'know, loved the analogy of the quarterback, right?

You read defenses, you make quick smart decisions.

And I think when Joe Montana retired, they didn't just pass the ball to someone in the bleachers.

- Steve and his football analogies!

- No, they didn't- - I gotcha.

- They picked somebody and I think that's the thing, is I think that he's tackled a lot of the tough issues as AG, whether it's opioid, rape kits, the environment, both as a senator and AG.

So I think that he's run an effective campaign, but I think at the end of the day, I think he's ready to be the governor and I think he's waited 25, 30 years to get to this point and I think he's gonna do a great job.

- So should Josh Stein, or Mark Robinson, get into office, what will be one of the first things you think North Carolinians want them to focus on?

Leoneda?

- Well, definitely it's always jobs.

It's always jobs.

And I've heard some, y'know, we've gotten some news releases that jobs are coming, but when you talk to everyday people, they're worried about their jobs.

So maybe they're just not the types of jobs that a lot of North Carolinians are groomed and trained to have.

So maybe some of those types of jobs are coming, but people are, it seems they're back to, some of the numbers, they're trying to look for two and three jobs again.

It's just really tough.

Y'know, the interest rate is coming down.

That may be helpful when you think of people and housing.

It's really tight, tough, and expensive.

- Very, for us, right, and it's relative 'cause we've got a bunch of people coming to North Carolina for the reason that it's a lot cheaper.

I want to kind of move the conversation on to some other key races because, y'know, I think it's important, and we've been talking about this over and over again, that it's not just the presidential race.

Local positions are just as important, if not more important.

One of the key races that's kind of on our scope is the state auditor race, right?

So I think it's been two years now since Beth Wood had to step down due to some situations that happened.

Jessica Holmes has been interim in that position and now she is going to be running up against Dave Boliek.

And, y'know, we've heard Beth Wood discredit her ability to be state auditor and she's going to be supporting the Republican candidate.

Steve, what are your thoughts on that and is Jessica fit to stay in the seat?

- Well, I mean, I think, first of all, for me as a voter, it wouldn't really matter whether Beth Wood endorsed her or not.

because she's no longer the auditor and she was forced to resign from office.

So my litmus test would be that the chief executive of our state, Governor Roy Cooper, a Morehead-Cain scholar, probably one of the best governors in the country, who probably could have been vice president, said that I'm picking Jessica Holmes, a former Wake County commissioner, the youngest county commissioner in the history of the state, to be the auditor.

So I think first of all, I would not really factor Beth Wood's statement in any decision I would make.

But does she have the experience?

Absolutely.

I mean, county commissioner as the chair, she ran a multi billion, think about $2 billion budget.

She's got a great story.

I mean, she had a tough life.

She was homeless when she was a young kid for a little while and recovered from that.

Went to college as a lawyer and she's the incumbent.

So she does have the experience.

Bullock also has experience.

He's from the WUNC board of trustees.

He's a businessman.

And so I think it's gonna be a close race, but she might have the advantage of incumbency and also what's gonna happen with the down ballot effect on these Council of State races.

- Yeah.

Any thoughts?

- It's also very short incumbency and she... - Yeah.

Yeah, it's been quite.

- And she was appointed.

You even hear them, not them.

You hear a lot of people say that even about Vice President Kamala Harris, you know, like, oh, she was, she didn't go through the primary election to get what she was handed.

But hopefully, you know, you can't worry about what a disgruntled person says about you, but you also, I hope it has nothing to do that she's a Black woman.

And when she was appointed, she was the first Black woman in the state to- - Yeah.

- To have such a position.

- The youngest and first Black woman.

- Yes.

- Yes.

- And then I think also, you know, she's represented a million people in Wake County and also brings a lot of diversity to the ticket, right?

- [Host] Yeah.

- As a young Black woman.

And think of the potential, she gets real, she'll make history as the first Black woman on the Council of State elected.

But I think that, you know, she's run statewide.

She ran for labor commissioner.

- [Host] Right.

- So I think that if you compare these races, it's gonna be interesting to watch.

- Yeah and just to make clear, in the state of North Carolina, you do not have to have a CPA in order to be a state auditor, which is a certified professional accountant.

- Right.

- Designation.

And both of these candidates, Jessica Holmes or Dave Bullock, do not have a CPA.

- No.

- Beth Wood did.

- They're lawyers.

- But they're lawyers.

- They're lawyers.

- Right.

So if anyone's looking for that kind of leverage of, well, who's the CPA and who's not?

Neither of these candidates are.

Right.

So let's keep on going.

Oh, but first, to clarify, and a state auditor does what for our state?

- It's the financial watchdog of the state.

They basically oversee, oversight and auditing the a hundred billion dollars of state agencies and assets.

And if they find something wrong, then they'll audit you.

And so it's a really important agency.

- [Leoneda] Yes.

- In terms of holding state government accountable.

And they've been successful in the past, even under Auditor Wood that she was a good auditor, actually did some good things.

- Good, alright.

Supreme Court, all right?

So Republicans have had a five to two majority on the state Supreme Court.

What does a Republican majority mean for North Carolina and Black communities in particular?

- Well, you can look at our Federal Supreme Court and the power we know, when you have a majority on such a court that has the power to make decisions that disproportionately and negatively maybe affect your community and where you're from and what you need.

It just makes me even think of affirmative action.

I know that was on a federal level, it makes me think of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

It makes me think of issues of abortion.

- [Host] Yeah.

- I know in that case, you hear, you hear Riggs say over and over, "I'm the only person on any court around here that's even of childbearing age, you know, female."

And she sticks to that and that she would be able to make such decisions hopefully, you know, impartially.

But yeah, a lot of issues that disproportionately affect people of color.

- [Host] Yeah.

- Can and probably will be decided with such a lopsided court.

- And just to clarify quickly, Allison Riggs fills the current seat.

- Yes.

- Right.

- She was also appointed by Governor Cooper.

She will be running up against her opponent Jefferson Griffin, - Right.

- In this election.

- Yeah.

And I mean, this race is what I call one of the most unreported races, the Supreme Court race.

And I want to first take a stab at your question of, well, how does it affect Black voters and voters in North Carolina?

Well, first of all, if you're concerned about voting rights, you know, not allowing felons, you know, that are no longer felons to vote.

Abortion rights, funding a public education, not pushing through the Leandro case so that every child has a constitutional right for education.

These are issues who you vote for, voter id, gerrymandering, maps that we're seeing.

These are all issues.

So who you vote for, a woman's reproductive rights, how much funding your child receives in school, the school's gonna receive, these are all done.

So yeah, she's running against Jefferson Griffin.

So he's a strict constructionist looking at the constitution, raised about a million dollars- - And he called her the partisan.

- Yeah, partisan.

And these are partisan races.

These are partisan races.

They made these partisan races, which I don't think is good.

Riggs has also raised a million.

It's a tight race, but this is a really important race.

Now the first thing is the Republicans, if they lose the race, they still have the majority.

- [Host] Right.

- If the Democrats win, and Allison Riggs wins, they don't have the majority, but it's an important race for the Democrats 'cause if they win this race, then they can get ready for Anita Earls.

And they win that race, then they put themselves in a position they can get the majority back.

But this is gonna be an important race for the Democrats because right now the Supreme Court's a rubber stamp.

For the general assembly, and they'll probably be the majority, right?

So anyway, this is an important race.

- It is very important.

- Yeah.

- All right, moving on.

Let's go to superintendent of public instruction.

Okay.

This has been interesting.

Very interesting.

Republican Michelle Morrow raised the profile of this race when she defeated her incumbent Katherine Truitt in the primaries.

Since then, though, Morrow has faced criticism for divisive social media posts, including one where she advocated for the assassination of former President Barack Obama.

This is the person that is supposed to lead the decisions for our schools, for our children.

Leonigo, what are your thoughts on that?

- No matter what you're running for or where you work, if you don't wanna lose your job, you need to stay off social media.

It will do you in every time.

- [Interviewer] We've seen it.

- But, you know, and I'm saying if you wanna win, there are also some people you need not bring up or talk about and actually threaten the life of a former president that's beloved by enough people that he was elected twice.

- [Interviewer] Right.

- But before even that was made available for all of us to read, just the mere fact of the experience that I felt she did not have, and that most children of color, they're not homeschooled, you know, public schools is what's the structure of that has helped.

And most people, children of color in public schools right now.

- To clarify her experiences more towards.

- And so her experience is to cover and to, I guess, rule over and run, that's always been like a red flag to me.

- Steve?

- Yeah, I mean, when you make statements like this, regardless of whether you're a Democrat or Republican, I really think it brings into question when you want people assassinate, executed when you're attending insurrections.

I don't think you really should be running for an office where you're gonna be example to our children.

I mean, this office should be about the standards of education, how our children are competing.

Are we funding, are we giving kids the resources so we can have more leaders like Jessica Holmes who can't do the public education system?

That's what we need.

- Yeah.

- And so I think Mo Green's got a better chance of winning.

- [Interviewer] Her opponent.

- Yes.

Her opponent, he was the superintendent of Guilford County schools, and under his leadership, he increased graduation rates, academic achievement.

He went to the Z-Smith Reynolds Foundation.

So who knows what's gonna happen, but I watched a debate last week.

I think clearly he came across with more experience, but you never know.

But that's what I would say, right?

I think more focus on Green.

But you can't get away from these statements, I don't think you can say these kinds of things.

And I don't think you should run for a council state office.

That's just my personal opinion as a citizen and a voter and a analyst.

- Yeah.

You know, we always think the ticket's gonna go one way or another based off of things that we've heard in the media.

But we don't always know that these comments are gonna have impact on the ticket.

- [Steve] We don't know.

- And we also know that you don't have to have a background in government or policy or anything as a prerequisite to be elected to a position or job.

And that goes back even to our Lieutenant governor.

- Yeah.

And just to clarify for our viewers, the superintendent of public instruction makes what kinds of decisions for our children's education?

- More policy decisions.

I mean, I think the local school boards will still be making decisions on where your schools are and those kinds of, but they'll look at the curriculum of the schools.

Some of these issues about the word that Mothers Against Liberty, Moms Against Liberty, you know, indoctrination, teaching Black history in the classes, what kind of books you can read and cannot read.

These are issues at hand.

But at the end of the day, I think this office is really about what are the standards of public education in North Carolina?

How are you helping them get the best education compared to the states in the country?

But I think there's also a position where you have to look globally of what other nations are doing, like India and others, and how the curriculums are doing.

So I think that's what this job does.

You're like the face of education basically.

The face of education in North Carolina.

- Yeah.

Okay.

All right, labor commissioner.

First, let's clarify what Labor Commissioner does because when Sherry Berry's name was all over elevators for decades upon decades, everyone knew her.

And then when her name changed, we're like, who is this person?

Right?

And all we think of is elevators.

So tell us what a labor commissioner does do.

- The labor commissioner, the statutes in North Carolina basically said that all it does is you're helping the safety and welfare of workers in North Carolina.

So that means elevator safety, boilerplate safety, rollercoasters, the state fair, right?

Making sure that workers are safe when they go to work.

So this department does inspections, they've got a smaller staff.

It's one of the smaller council state agencies, Josh Dobson's leaving, so that's what the Labor commissioner does.

I personally think that eventually the office should also be looking at the changing face of labor 'cause many people's jobs are being automated away.

Haven't really heard that much in this campaign, but the AI Bill of Rights and things like that.

But that's what the office does.

Very limited in scope, and that's what it is.

- And currently, attorney Luke Farley is our current labor commissioner.

He adapted his make elevators great again slogan.

We know what side he's on with that slogan, he is being faced off with Democrat Braxton Winston as his opponent.

[Kenia] Lay out the landscape of these two gentlemen, Leoneda.

- [Leoneda] Well, the one thing I do know about Braxton Winston II.

I mean, he is pro-Union.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- And that stands for like, 'cause when I think of this particular role and position, it's all about safety of workers and not just making sure hopefully that they're treated right and paid right.

And I think Luke Farley is, you know, opposite on definitely the union end of conversations when it comes to workers.

- Yeah, and I think it's interesting because I know that, you know, a year or two ago folks were talking to me about running for labor commissioner, but one of the reasons I didn't do it was because John [indistinct] was gonna be the presumptive nominee.

And everyone thought that he was moderate popular, and he surprisingly lost to Farley.

So this is gonna be an interesting race.

Winston and Farley have not won statewide.

I think Winston has a good chance, but being from an urban city like Charlotte, sometimes it's harder to win statewide races.

And Farley has the labor law experience.

He did support, he is supported by Trump.

And I'd be curious to see whether he supported Robinson.

- [Kenia] Right.

- I don't know if he did or not, but that could come back to hurt him.

- Obviously, again, we talked about protection of jobs and safety, but that has nothing to do with the jobs coming into the state, correct?

Labor commissioner?

- It doesn't.

- I would think not.

- [Kenia] So they're two different things.

- Yeah, it doesn't.

That's more economic development and commerce.

- Right.

- Sometimes I wonder whether it should be, because it seems like Labor commissioner, shouldn't labor be about jobs?

But it's about elevators and inspections and, you know.

- But one thing I know WUNC public radio is focusing on and looking closely at this race is really safety, heat safety.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

- You know, those are employees and workers who do just about everything outside.

- Well, I wanna make sure that our viewers know that as election day approaches, PBS North Carolina wants to make sure that our viewers are prepared to vote.

You can find more information about election day, voter registration deadlines, early voting, voter ID, and so much more.

Make sure you visit pbsc.org/vote for additional details.

Well, I'm grateful for this conversation.

It's been enlightening, and I think our viewers hopefully have enough information now to go forward and vote.

- A lot of decisions to be made, and early voting starts soon, and it's gonna be an interesting couple weeks.

- [Kenia] Indeed.

- Thank you, and I'm just happy to see so many people of color actually running for some of the top offices in this state.

- [Steve] It's exciting.

- Yes, I noticed that.

- That excites me.

- That's great.

- It's good.

- Steve Rao, Leoneda Inge, thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- And I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag "Black Issues Forum."

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesfourm, and on the PBS video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson, I'll see you next time.

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