(upbeat music) - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today believes luxury is a mindset.

She energizes audiences around the world to elevate their brands by creating exceptional experiences.

Today we welcome author Neen James.

- Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by: - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors to over 65 million consumers across 14 states and the District of Columbia.

With 17,000 purpose-driven teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction, comprehensive facility support with The Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

(upbeat music) - Neen, welcome to Side by Side.

I'm delighted to have you here today.

I'm intrigued by your latest book.

Your latest book talks about experiences.

What is that all about?

- Exceptional experiences is how do we elevate every aspect of your business?

So from all of the work that I've had the privilege of doing with luxury and legacy brands around the world, I took all the lessons that I'd learned and I compiled them into one book.

- And experiences as what?

As in customer service, as in educate me, what do you mean by experiences?

- When I work with CEOs and their teams, what they're often asked to do is two things.

How do they capture the attention of potential clients?

But how do they get those same clients to become advocates for them?

So think of it as mindshare and market share.

How do we capture attention?

And then how do we elevate the experience so they wanna tell the world about us?

What the book unpacks is the framework.

It's like a playbook on how you do that.

So whether you are an entrepreneur, whether you are a student, or whether you are an executive running a company, you want to be able to grow your business, right?

So we need to be able to capture the attention of potential people, and then have those same people tell the world about the experience they had with you.

That's what the book will unpack for you.

- I see, so in a very cluttered world, the New York Times says that the average American receives something like 5,000 invitations to buy in a single week.

- Right.

- As in the newspaper, commercials on television, direct mail catalogs, and on and on the list goes.

How does someone create great experiences that you can remember?

We'll talk about how to advocate it, but that you experience in a very cluttered world.

I mean, the average company, the average organization is reaching people who are already being reached by lots of other organizations and companies and products.

- I think in the world where, you've heard people say that our attention span is declining, and I don't believe that to be true.

You know I authored a book called "Attention Pays."

And what I said in this book is that it is our intention that makes attention valuable.

And when we think about attention-- - What does that mean?

Our intention makes attention valuable.

- It's what we're thinking about behind.

So it truly is those messages behind.

So I remember the best lesson I ever had in "Attention Neater" was from a five year old.

And I remember he and I were in this debate.

If you've ever debated with a five year old, you know that's not a conversation that's easy to win.

But he didn't think I was listening to him and he got really mad.

He jumped in my lap, he grabbed my face and his tiny little hands and he said, "Neen, listen with your eyes."

And from a five year old, we get one of the best lessons about how do we truly listen with our eyes?

How do we pay attention, undivided attention to people?

And I think we also need to be able to entice that attention by having great stories to tell.

Brands that have a story, that often share their origin story.

That's how we connect on a more emotional, deeper level.

And so when it comes to being intentional, it's about the choices you make, the actions you take, the stories you tell, so that they grab the attention of someone who says, "Hmm, I wanna pay attention to you.

"Now you have my attention, "let's take our conversation further."

- In that context, are you talking about someone selling a product or are you talking about an individual positioning themselves?

- It can be either.

So if you think about the people that are watching this, some people might be business owners, so they're looking to have the attention of the potential client.

So that includes all of their digital assets, the way they talk about themselves on their website and in social media.

But if it is a student and they're meeting someone for the first time in an interview, it's about how they're going to present their story and why they would add value to that organization.

If it's an executive recruiting people into their organization, they need to be able to position why that's a great organization to work for.

So really being able to articulate your value in a way that that person says, "Okay, you have my attention, "now you've enticed me to pay more attention."

And then the next part of the book explains how do you invite people into your community through the words you use, through the things that you're sharing with them that they feel that sense of belonging.

Because we know that we buy from organizations, whether it's their product or services, because sometimes those people are aligned with our values or they say that one thing that gets our attention, we're like, "Hmm, I wanna know more about that."

So we have to be able to captivate their attention.

- And so you talked about listening with your eyes.

That's a really great statement, listening with your eyes.

Meaning really paying attention, being engaged, show respect to the other person.

What other ways can someone create experiences that are remembered and therefore valued and therefore they step up and step out to do business with you?

- I think thoughtful is unforgettable.

Hugh and I read a book a long, long time ago called "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie.

And he says in his book, "A person's name is the sweetest sound.

"And a no-cost attention-grabbing strategy "is to use people's names.

"Allow them to feel seen, heard, and valued by you."

It costs us nothing to do that, whether it is the barista who is giving us our coffee, whether it is the person who is swiping our boarding pass to allow us onto the plane.

If we could use people's names more, I think that also helps.

But working with luxury brands, what I love is they know how to personalize and customize.

And so they're always looking for ways to surprise clients, to surprise a guest.

And that can sometimes be a handwritten note.

It's about being able to capture someone's attention, but also make them feel special.

In our digital AI world, Nido, I think it's that human connection that gets attention.

And sometimes we need those analog systems.

- What makes a brand a luxury brand?

- Mm, great question.

- You refer a lot in the book about luxury brands.

Does that mean expensive?

Does that mean respected?

Does that mean it's a famous label on a product?

- I think luxury is a divisive word.

I think people see it as expensive or elitist.

And I wanna change the narrative around that.

You see, I believe luxury is both inclusive and exclusive.

But here's what I mean by that.

It's inclusive because everybody deserves luxury every day.

And it's exclusive because you can roll out a red carpet experience for anyone that you meet.

When I did-- - So it has nothing to do with price?

- No, I think luxury is not about money, it's about moments.

I said attention is about connection.

I think luxury is about the human connection.

I have the only research study of its kind in the world into luxury as a mindset.

And when I did the research study, what happened was when we asked everyone to define luxury, five keywords came up no matter who we asked.

They were that it was high quality, long lasting, authentic, unique, and indulgent.

Now besides indulgent, all of those other words could apply to leading.

- Unless you're talking about ice cream, that would be indulgent.

- Yeah, yeah, I love ice cream.

- Ice cream and chocolates.

Ice cream and chocolates.

- Luxury as a definition.

Now I think what happens is that where we feel a luxury experience, luxury is often how you make people feel.

And so for some, luxury could be the luxury of time.

For others, it could be the lovely thread count of a hotel bed sheet.

But luxury, I am on a mission to ensure that luxury is more about connection.

It's about the moments, not the money.

Luxury is about experiences, not things.

- So the premise therefore is that if I feel good about doing business with you or any other company, then I'm more likely to do that again and again because I enjoy it, and then I'll tell other people about it.

- Correct, yes.

And that's what we found in the research study is that there are four different luxury mindsets.

One of those mindsets, the reluctant and removed mindset, feels like luxury is hard.

They think brands don't understand them.

So the way to speak their luxury language, Nido, is to tell them how your product or service will save them time.

That's luxury to them.

The pro-prioritizer mindset is the person who thinks luxury is like power.

They use it for their career and reputation.

For them, they want to align themselves to brands who have authentic, long-lasting sustainability is how you speak to them, because they care about the environmental and societal impact you make.

We have the confident and content mindset, who says, "I don't need luxury."

But you know how they use it, Nido?

They use it to create memories with people they love.

So if you want to speak their language, you talk about how that's going to enhance the lives of people that they care about.

And then the fourth of the luxury mindsets we discovered in our research study is the luxury lover.

And the luxury lover says, "Luxury, oh yes, I am worth it.

"Luxury for everyone, every day."

But for them, what they love about luxury is they love to share luxury.

They also have a big mouth.

The luxury lover is the person who becomes the big advocate, because when you find a luxury lover in your business for the products or services that you share, they want to tell people on social media, write you testimonials.

They want to tell people at their country club, this is the kind of brand I want to work with.

So it doesn't matter what the luxury mindset is.

One's not more important than the other.

But the luxury lover is the one who ends up being the biggest advocate.

They want to tell everyone.

And as business owners, or as leaders in organizations, to help us with our recruiting and to help us with our business, it's great to have advocates for our business.

- And you were born in Australia.

- I was, in a tiny little town.

- And you went to Western Sydney University and so on.

And you served on the World Luxury Chamber of Commerce.

I don't know what that is, you gotta explain to me in a moment.

And you're a member of the National Speak Association, and you travel the world speaking to audiences and consulting with companies.

You live in Tampa, Florida, nice and warm.

Is luxury defined differently based on the culture?

For example, is luxury in America defined differently than let's say, in a third world country where people have basic needs?

- You said that I'm from Australia, I'm from a tiny little town.

And when I was a little girl, I was raised by a single mom.

And there was one traffic light in my town, and I lived in a caravan.

In America, we call that a trailer park.

And my mom worked so hard, Nido.

She would clean houses, she picked fruit, she sold lettuce on the side of the road.

And no matter how busy my mom was, no matter how tired she was, at the end of a busy shift, she would walk through a community garden and she would pick a flower and she would bring it home to our little caravan.

And she would pop it in a glass, we called it a vase 'cause we felt fancy.

And she reminded us as little girls, it didn't matter about money or things, everyone deserves luxury.

I get my luxury mindset from my mom.

And so when you think about where I've come from, I don't come from luxury, but what my mom demonstrated is luxury is a mindset.

- A single flower.

- A single flower.

- On a special day with someone you love is luxury.

- It is luxury.

And so I think I watched her model this, and so she really is my inspiration.

And so from a tiny little town, and yes, I have the privilege of speaking all over the world for some incredible brands at ridiculously lovely locations.

And I will never forget that lesson that my mom taught me.

So I think culturally, we all have the opportunity to make people feel seen, heard and valued like my mom did.

It doesn't matter whether we speak English, whether we are from the same region, whether people come from money or don't come from money.

I think luxury is how you allow people to experience you and make them feel.

So I think that we value it different in different places of the world, but everyone wants to be seen.

- Yes, everybody wants to feel important.

They all have to live life fully.

Absolutely.

So it's interesting to me that you define luxury the way you do, because I don't think that's typically the societal definition of luxury.

You think of luxury as these famous brand names.

You think of luxury as these expensive hotels and resorts.

You think of luxury as first class in an airplane.

But you go way beyond that.

You're making the point that luxury is how you feel and luxury can be attainable by one and all.

- For sure.

- If they're, you used the word intention.

If they have the intentionality to feel that way.

So give me the three lessons that if someone just sat next to you at the airplane and said, well, what makes a brand regarded as a luxury brand?

What makes a product or service?

What would make me feel like this gives me a luxury?

I understand from my perspective, the single flower you mentioned, I get that.

But in a world where we're inundated with advertising, we can't turn right or left, go north or south without seeing advertising.

How does one discern between that which could give you the feeling of luxury and that which is just good old slick advertising?

- The first thing I would say, you and I are both fans of the Ritz brand and spending time with one of the founders, Herve Humler, one of the things we talked about is great luxury brands make people feel seen and heard.

That's what the Ritz does and they customize.

- Ritz as in the Ritz cult.

- Correct.

- The hotel chain.

- And then that is a lesson I think we can all take that we can personalize every interaction with people.

The second thing I would say is-- - So customize every interaction.

In other words, pay attention.

- Correct.

- Listen with your eyes.

- Be in that moment.

- Be in that moment.

It's hard to do in a world where we're all so connected through technology and yet we're so disconnected sometimes emotionally.

You see a family sitting in a restaurant, three, four people all on their iPhones.

Yeah.

But imagine if we all just put our devices away.

There used to be a time, Nido, where there weren't cell phones interrupting our conversations and distracting us and stealing our time and attention.

Technology is not the problem, we are.

We really need to give someone the gift of our undivided attention.

The easiest thing we can do is put those devices away.

One of the research studies that I found out of California when I was researching my book, "Attention Pays," said that if a phone is present on a table and two people are talking, even if it's face down, the other person is less likely to trust you because they think you're waiting for someone else and their attention.

- At this point.

So if you have your phone there, the idea is you got something else on your mind.

- Right.

- You're divided between the present moment and what could happen on that phone.

- And I think as you enter a space, I've always walked into a room and assumed everyone wants to play with me.

I always have.

But to allow me to do that, it means that before I leave my hotel room or before I leave my house, all of the devices have to be away.

So whoever I am with feels like they're the most important person that I met that day, not being on my cell phone.

So that's important.

So what luxury brands are able to do is to make you feel so important because they've given you their gift of undivided attention.

They've personalized your time.

They've used your name.

But the other thing that they do is they show you that they know you.

And some of the ways they do that is through the way that they have collected information on you.

So when you think about businesses and the way we collect information, and then we use that information.

So if it's in friends, we see them after hours.

We remember things about their details and their life.

So we make it about them and not about us.

But luxury brands do that so well because of the way they're capturing information.

- Well, psychographics, for example, for years, they disciplined that.

They know what you buy, what you like, where you go, et cetera, and then they play to that.

If you were speaking to an audience of salespeople, as I'm sure you do with some frequency, and you say to that audience, "Here are the lessons.

Well, here are the steps you must follow to ensure that you're creating that luxury feeling in everybody with whom you choose to work," what would you be saying to them?

- I'd say the first thing you have to do is to entice them by capturing their attention.

And that's really a way where you're telling stories like we had suggested.

And then invite them into your community by communicating in a way that you're speaking their language so they feel included.

Then what you do is get the opportunity to excite them by doing things that are shareworthy, maybe engaging the five senses in the way you speak, the sounds, the touch, all of those exquisite details.

And then you get a chance to delight them.

We've talked about making people succine and heard, and that's where they're starting to really feel elevated and everything.

And then you get to ignite them as advocates.

You get the opportunity to help them understand the kinds of ways you like to work with them.

Maybe it's exclusive events.

Maybe it's the things you do before they even enter your business or during their visit with you, and then the things you do after.

But what all of this does, when you have the opportunity to entice someone in, invite them to your community, excite and delight them, they can't help but tell other people about you because you've elevated every aspect of their experience.

So it's everything from capturing their attention all the way through to being able to have those same people wanna tell the world.

- But some people would resist that, right?

Some people have become so used to people playing to them, promoting things to them, and the authenticity factor becomes kind of convoluted with the charisma of it all.

- Right.

I think, too, one of the challenges with AI, I think AI is fantastic for efficiencies, but I think what people are doing is they're outsourcing their thinking and their emotion to AI.

And what I'd love to see people do is bring more of themselves back into their communications to truly have that human connection.

And so while I think we can leverage the incredible efficiency of AI and it can help us and streamline things, you will never replace the human connection.

You will never replace that feeling someone has being in your presence, the way that you make them feel.

Only a human can do that.

And I think we need to do more of that.

And yes, sometimes that has to be through the written communication, through the advertising, but we need to do it in a way that's more inclusive.

We need to make sure the words we're using, people see themselves in part of the conversation.

So we need to be more diligent with the words we choose.

The words matter.

Everything speaks.

Your physicality, your brand, your presence, your tone of voice, the way that you look someone in the eyes, this is all part of the experience someone has of you.

And hopefully that's an exceptional experience.

- You know, Steve Wozniak, the co-founder of Apple Computer was on this show and he put it this way.

He said, "When a computer can feel like a human being, then a computer can outdo human being."

But if a computer just can process information and be intelligent, that's why they're called artificial intelligence, then the emotion, the feeling is not there.

Neen, you know, this whole research you've done is intriguing because it speaks about humanity and people's frames of reference, people's sense of objectivity and sense of emotion about life and living.

Does that apply to all ages?

I think about younger generations who come into the workplace and they're a little different than say my generation where we gave our all, we're willing to give all the hours, work hard, earn it, climb the ladder slowly but cumulatively.

Maybe I'm overdoing this definition, but the younger generation seems to be much more connected to technology and much more self-oriented and much more keenly aware of their needs and wants about life.

So I'm just wondering how they respond to all this research you've done.

Do they respond the same way that an older person responds?

- What's interesting is you don't have to be a luxury product to provide a luxury level of service.

I was privileged to spend some time with students and the students were well-researched, they came prepared with fantastic questions, but from the moment that I was greeted with the handshake, the body language, the smile, that didn't cost them anything and they responded.

And when we started to talk about these principles of luxury and how they could apply them into their own personal lives, in their career journeys, they were riding furiously.

At one point in our conversation, I remember saying, "I have Post-it notes in my bag, do you want me to give you some Post-it notes?"

So everyone had Post-it notes and they were writing things down.

And so I think what happens is that generations before us sometimes put their beliefs and values on the next generation with expectation they will be the same.

What I love about the young generation-- - I certainly have that.

I'm guilty of what you just said.

- We all are, Nido, but what's great about this generation is they're so altruistic.

They have a vision for the world.

They want to be able to truly change the world.

And so what we can do to support that is provide them with the opportunities and mentoring and show them how, as they show up, they can be an even better version of themselves.

If we can help them see their potential, they will step into that potential willingly and they'll ask a million questions along the way.

What I love about a young generation is their sense of curiosity.

What I love is they have this ability to say, "Well, if you could do it, then I could do it."

And so I love working with this generation and they have embraced it.

And what is really interesting is I learn as much from them as they would have the opportunity to learn from me.

- That's really true.

I think reverse mentoring is so valuable.

If we have, I learn from people all the time that are younger than me and it's active reverse mentoring.

- School is never out for the pro, that's for sure.

- That's for sure.

- So the term or the word luxury, until one explains it the way you explained it, which has nothing to do with accessibility.

You made the point, it's accessible to one and all really.

But the term luxury has sort of a negative connotation.

- For sure.

Yeah, very divisive.

I think I'm on a mission to change that, Nino.

- Yeah, yeah.

I like your definition that the flower that your mom picked without any cost brought a sense of luxury to your trailer home in that small town in Australia.

I like that definition.

I like that example and what it illustrates to all of us.

I'm not sure, Neen, that I've thought of luxury in that way.

I think I've always thought of luxury as more expensive.

And you're defining it in a very different term, a much more helpful term.

So thank you for being with me on Side by Side.

I enjoy chatting with you about these subjects and I hope that you will continue this mission of explaining that every one of us can experience that if only we have an open mind and a sense of intention for it.

- It's an absolute privilege and I think if people can remember luxuries about experiences, not things, we can make those experiences exceptional.

- Yes, and that adds value and meaning to everyone's life.

Thank you so much for being with me.

- My privilege.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by-- - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors to over 65 million consumers across 14 states and the District of Columbia.

With 17,000 purpose-driven teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction, comprehensive facility support with The Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.