>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," PRESIDENT BIDEN IS GETTING BIG BLOWBACK FOR HIS TRIP TO SAUDI ARABIA AND HOW HE INTERACTED WITH THE CROWN PRINCE BELIEVED TO HAVE ORDERED THE MURDER OF A U.S.-BASED JOURNALIST.

AND TO MANY, THE QUESTION OF WHETHER HE SHOULD HAVE EVEN MADE THE TRIP IS UP FOR SERIOUS DEBATE, WHICH WE'LL GET INTO WITH JOURNALISTS FROM THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND "WASHINGTON POST," ONE OF WHOM WAS FRIENDS WITH THE MAN WHO WAS MURDERED.

THEN TWO CAST MEMBERS FROM THE BROADWAY-BOUND 'A BEAUTIFUL NOISE,' ON HOW THEY BROUGHT NEIL DIAMOND'S STORY TO LIFE ON THE BOSTON STAGE.

>> Braude: IT WAS THE FIST BUMP SEEN 'ROUND THE WORLD: JOE BIDEN'S GREETING OF SAUDI CROWN PRINCE MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN DURING HIS MIDDLE EAST TRIP LAST WEEK.

A FIST BUMP, WITH THE MAN JUST ABOUT EVERYONE, INCLUDING OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, BELIEVES ORDERED THE MURDER OF WASHINGTON POST JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI.

A FIST BUMP, WITH THE SAME MAN THEN-CANDIDATE BIDEN SAID THIS ABOUT, BACK IN 2019: >> KHASHOGGI WAS IN FACT MURDERED AND DISMEMBERED AND I BELIEVE ON THE ORDER OF THE CROWN PRINCE.

AND I WOULD MAKE IT VERY CLEAR WE WERE NOT GOING TO IN FACT SELL MORE WEAPONS TO THEM, WE WERE GOING TO IN FACT MAKE THEM PAY THE PRICE, AND MAKE THEM THE PARIAH, THAT THEY ARE.

>> Braude: WHEN HE WAS CALLED ON THE APPARENT CHANGE OF MIND-- BIDEN DEFENDED HIS HANDLING OF THE MEETING, SAYING HE DIDN'T MINCE WORDS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS: >> WITH RESPECT TO THE MURDER OF KHASHOGGI, I RAISED IT AT THE TOP OF THE MEETING, MAKING IT CLEAR WHAT I THOUGHT OF IT AT THE TIME AND WHAT I THINK OF IT NOW.

HE BASICALLY SAID THAT HE WAS NOT PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR IT.

I INDICATED THAT I THOUGHT HE WAS.

>> Braude: BUT THE PICTURE THAT SAUDI OFFICIALS HAVE PAINTED SINCE INDICATE BIDEN MAY NOT HAVE BEEN QUITE SO DIRECT.

BIDEN'S RESPONSE?

>> THE SAUDI FOREIGN MINISTER SAYS HE DIDN'T HEAR YOU ACCUSE THE CROWN PRINCE OF KASHOGGI'S MURDER.

IS HE TELLING THE TRUTH?

>> NO.

>> DO YOU REGRET THE FIRST BUMP, MR. PRESIDENT?

>> WHY DON'T YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MATTERS?

I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER A QUESTION THAT MATTERS.

>> Braude: MANY MIDEAST OBSERVERS THINK OTHER THINGS DO MATTER AND THAT IT IS NOTHING NEW FOR A U.S. LEADER TO DO BUSINESS WITH ANOTHER HUMAN-RIGHTS-VIOLATING LEADER, WHEN OTHER CRITICAL INTERESTS ARE AT STAKE, NOT PRETTY, BUT NECESSARY.

I'M JOINED BY KAREN ATTIAH, OPINION COLUMNIST FOR THE "WASHINGTON POST," WHO WAS A FRIEND OF KHASHOGGI'S, AND JYOTI THOTTAM, EDITORIALS EDITOR FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES."

WELCOME TO YOU BOTH, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> NICE TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> KAREN, YOU WROTE IT WAS A QUOTE CRASS BETRAYAL OF A CAMPAIGN PROMISE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, EVEN IF CANDIDATE BIDEN HADN'T MADE THAT PARIAH COMMENT, WOULD YOU NOT BE ON BOARD WITH A BIDEN CROWN PRINCE MEETING, CORRECTS?

>> I THINK-- I THINK THE REAL, YOU KNOW, THE REAL MAIN KIND OF QUESTION OF ALL OF THIS, RIGHT, IS DOES THIS DISCONNECT IS OBVIOUSLY THE CAMPAIGN PROMISE AND THE REAL POLICY OF ALL OF THIS.

LOOK, OF COURSE, I THINK MANY OF US, PLENTY OF US WHO KNEW JAMAL AND ARE STUDENTS OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS KNOW PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE A PRETTY INGLORIOUS TRACK RECORD OF DOING DEALS WITH DICTATORS AND HUMAN RIGHT AS BEUSERS.

AND I THINK FOR A LOT OF US IT IS BIGGER THAN THAT.

IT WAS ABOUT PUSHING, OR DIFFERENT BUSINESS WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD.

AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO REALLY-- TO REALLY BELIEVE THAT IF BIDEN HADN'T HAVE GONE THAT SHOW THE U.S.-SAUDI RELATIONSHIP, HUNDRED YEARS OF RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN SAUDI ARABIA AND THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE COMPLETELY FALLEN APART.

NO, IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

BUT IN THIS CASE, WHAT BIDEN HAS DONE AND WHAT THE SAUDIS NOW BELIEVE WE WILL HAVE IS THE OPTICS OF THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR JAMAL'S MURDER, RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL SORTS OF OTHER ATROCITIES IN YEMEN, HE HAS GIVEN HIM A CHANCE TO BE REHABILITATED ON THE WORLD STAGE.

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT WAS NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT THE UNITED STAIGHTS AND BIDEN NEEDED TO DO AT THIS JUNCTURE.

>> YOU KNOW JYOTI, I'M SURE YOU RED THE COMMENTS BY THE EDITOR OF "THE WASHINGTON POST" WITH MIRRORED MUCH OF WHAT KAREN WROTE, HE SAID THE FIST BUMP WAS WORSE THAN A HANDSHAKE T WAS SHAMEFUL AND PROJECTED A LEVEL OF INTIMACY AND COMFORT THAT DLIRRED TO MBS THE UNWARRANTED REDEMPTION HE HAS BEEN DESPERATELY SEEKING.

DO YOU REALLY DISAGREE WITH THEM OR IS THIS ONE OF THESE YES, WHAT THEY SAY IS TRUE, HOWEVER, THAT IS THE SENSE I GET FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES" EDITORIAL, AM I RIGHT?

>> I THINK THAT'S RIGHT.

I MEAN KAREN IS EXACTLY CORRECT IN POINTING OUT THAT THE PROBLEM HERE IS THE CONTRAST BETWEEN CANDIDATE BIDEN AND PRESIDENT BIDEN, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO IS TRYING TO CARRY OUT U.S. FOREIGN POLICY IN THE WORLD THAT HE HAS-- THE WORLD THAT HE IS IN RATHER THAN THE WORLD AS HE MIGHT WISH THAT IT IS.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO ILLUMINATE IN OUR EDITORIAL THIS WEEK IS THAT YOU KNOW, THE VALUES BASED PART OF HIS FOREIGN POLINGSEE WAS ALWAYS GOES TO BE THE MOST CHALLENGING FOR HIVMENT I MEAN HE-- IT SEEMS LIKE IF BY NATURE HE SAY PRACTICING MA TYES BUT WHAT HE SETS HIS FOREIGN POLICY UP FOR WITH THIS KIND OF STRICT BINARY DISTINCT BETWEEN GOOD AND BAD, BETWEEN DEMOCRACY AND OUGHT OCTOBER CRASSEE, THAT SAY VERY, VERY DIFFICULT WAY TO CONDUCT FOREIGN POLICY AND THAT IS WHAT WE HAVE SEEN HERE FOR SURE.

>> SO JYOTI, BRIEFLY LIST FOR ME WHAT WERE THE MAJOR THINGS IN YOUR ESTIMATION N YOUR NEWSPAPER'S EDITORIAL THAT BIDEN NEEDED TO ADDRESS IN SUCH A MEETING?

>> UH-HUH.

I MEAN TAKE YOUR PICK.

THERE IS OIL PRICES, THERE IS YOU KNOW, HUMAN RIGHTS ABSOLUTELY AND I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT MOST AMERICANS CARE ABOUT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS, CERTAINLY OUR READERS DO.

AND IT'S HARD FOR EVEN FOR VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND, WHAT IS IT THAT A PRESIDENT CAN DO TO ADDRESS BOTH OF THOSE THINGS.

AT THE SAME TIME.

AND THEN OF COURSE THERE IS THE BROADER PICTURE OF THE REGION.

>> SURE.

>> I MEAN THE GULF STATES,IT IS INTERESTING.

I THINK THERE IS REALLY BEEN A REALIGNMENT IN THE REGION OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

ONE THAT FRANKLY WAS STARTED UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THIS IS ONE OF THE POLICIES THAT I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS LOOKED AT AND SORT OF CONSIDERED AND THEY HAVE NOT REPUDIATED EVERYTHING THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DID.

SO AGAIN, THIS ASK A MORE COMPLICATED SITUATION THAN PERHAPS EVEN BIED RCH.

>> ONE MORE THING WITH YOU, DOES IT NOT TROUBLE YOU IN THE PIECE THAT BIDEN HIMSELF WROTE IN THE "WASHINGTON POST," THE FIRST THING YOU MENTIONED WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST THING I MENTIONED, OIL.

WAS ALMOST AN AFTERTHOUGHT.

IT WAS A THROW AWAY LINE AT THE END OF A PARAGRAPH AS IF THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VISIT.

>> UH-HUH.

>> DOES THAT TROUBLE YOU.

>> THAT WAS SURPRISING.

WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF TROUBLE IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT WORD.

WE CERTAINLY NOTED THAT AS WELL IN OUR EDITORIAL.

I THINK IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT WE DID NOT WANT TO BE SEEN TO BE, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE MADE THIS VISIT BECAUSE OF OIL PRICES BUT I THINK IT'S VERY SCHEER THAT THAT WAS ON THE AGENDA.

>> KAREN YOU INTIMATED A MINUTE AGO, MAYBE YOU DIDN'T SAY SPEFLT, MAYBE IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE AT PRESIDENTIAL LEVEL BUT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" EDITORIAL MENTIONED, A LOT OF PEOPLE MENTIONED NIXON IN CHINA.

MEETINGS BETWEEN RUSSIAN AND AMERICAN LEADERS DURING THE COLD WAR.

IT'S NOT ABERRATIONAL FOR THIS COUNTRY'S LEADERS TO MEET WITH, I WOULD EVEN ARGUE, FAR WORSE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATERS.

WOULD YOU NOT AGREE?

>> I MEAN I THINK SAUDI ARABIA IN PARTICULAR, FAIR BUT ALSO TECHNICALLY THE HEAD OF THE COUNTRY IS KING SALMAN, HE IS STILL ALIVE AND THAT WAS A TACT THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WAS ACTUALLY USING, MEETING WITH KING SALMAN AND DIRECTING KING SALMAN INSTEAD OF THE SAUDI CROWN PRINCE.

BUT AGAIN, I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THERE IS PLENTY OF DEBATE ABOUT AMERICA'S TRACK RECORD DEALING WITH, AGAIN, DICTATORS, LOOK AT PRESIDENT SISI OF EGYPT.

AND PUTTING NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS IS AHEAD OF HUMAN RIGHTS.

THAT BEING SAID.

I THINK WHAT IS VERY OFTEN MISSING FROM THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE FRANKLY THE PEOPLE.

THE PEOPLE, THE DISSIDENTS, THE CRITICS.

THE CIVIL SOCIETY IN THESE COUNTRIES THAT ARE BEINGS COMPLETELY REPRESSED, RIGHT.

AND SILENCED AND PART OF THAT IS DUE TO THE GEO POLITICS OF THE ALIGNMENT AS THE AMERICAN, WITH THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.

SO I WOULD HAVE WISHED, I WOULD HAVE WISHED I COULD HAVE HEARD MORE FROM BIDEN ABOUT CIVIL SOCIETY AND THE PEOPLE IN THE REGION.

>> CAN I RAISE ANOTHER ISSUE THAT I AM GUESSING YOU BOTH WOULD AGREE, WELL, I SHOULDN'T MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION.

BUT A STARTING WITH JAMAL KHASHOGGI'S MURDER.

THERE WAS ALSO DESIRE ON THE PART OF THE FAMILY OF ABU AKLA, PALESTINIAN AMERICAN JOURNALIST TO MEET WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN.

SHE WAS THE ONE I THINK WAS KILLED BY ISRAELI BULLETS, HER FAMILY AND PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP INTENDED IT WAS INTENTIONAL.

I DON'T BELIEVE WE REACHED THAT CONCLUSION.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE DIDN'T DO FERRABLY WELL ON THIS VISIT IN TERMS OF PROTECTING THE SECURITY OF JOURNALISTS ON ANY FRONTS, DID WE?

>> NO, I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY IT.

I THINK THAT SHOW IN THIS VISIT, THOSE ISSUES JUST WEREN'T REALLY RAISED TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN.

AND I THINK I WOULD ADD ALSO THE FAMILIES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL HELD HOSTAGE IN SOME OF THESE PLACES, I THINK THEY WERE VERY DISAPPOINTED BY THIS VISIT.

I THINK MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE REASON TO BE DISAPPOINTED BY THIS VISIT, BUT AGAIN, AS WE POINTED OUT IN THE EDITORIAL, SOMETIMES IT IS SORT OF A BINARY WAY OF LOOKING AT THE WORLD ISN'T NECESSARILY THE THING THAT SERVES THE LONG-TERM INTERESTS OF PEOPLE IN THE RECOMMENDATIONON WHO OBVIOUSLY HAVE MANY OF THE SAME DESIRES THAT WE DO.

, JUST LIVED WITH MORE FREEDOM.

>> KAREN, AM I GOING TOO FAR WHEN I SAY THAT THE WAY, THE DEATH OF THESE TWO JOURNALISTS WAS TREATED, I DON'T WANT TO SAY GIVES AN OPEN LICENSE FOR OTHER LEADERS TO DO SIMILAR AW TROA SHUS THINGS, BUT IT DOES MINIMIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF PROTECTING JOURNALISTS, DOES IT NOT?

>> I DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TOO FAR AT ALL.

I THINK THE MESSAGE THAT BOTH, IN THE CASE OF ISRAEL AND SAUDI ARABIA, BUT IT REALLY PAYS TO BE A U.S.

ALLY IN THE REGION.

I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, IF THIS WERE HISTORIC RUSSIA, PERHAPS, I THINK THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT OF TOUGH TALK, TOUGHER TALK, RIGHT?

BUT THESE ARE OUR ALLIES IN THE REGION AND I THINK IT SENDS A VERY CHILLING MESSAGE TO JOURNALISTS AROUND THE WORLD.

AND ALSO TO U.S. CITIZENS AND RESIDENTS.

JAMAL WAS A U.S. RESIDENT.

ABU AKLAY WAS A U.S. CITIZEN.

SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN THAT OUR OWN GOVERNMENT WON'T ALSO STAND UP FOR JOURNALISTS WHO SHOULD HAVE THE PRIVILEGES OF U.S. RESIDENCY AND CITIZENSHIP.

>> Braude: KAREN, I ONLY HAVE ONE MINUTE LEFT AND I THINK MOST PEOPLE WATCHING KNOW THAT BUR FORMER COLLEAGUE, THE EXTRAORDINARY JOURNALISM, BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW HIM AND YOU DID.

COULD YOU SPEND A FEW SECONDS AND TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT JAMAL AS A PERSON?

>> I APPRECIATE THAT.

YEAH, SO I RECRUITED AND HIRED AND WORKED WITH JAMAL FOR A YEAR BEFORE HE WAS MURDERED.

AND I MEAN, HE WAS A GEM OF A HUMAN BEING, HONESTLY.

AND I THINK WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT HE WASN'T-- HE LOVED SAUDI ARABIA.

YOU CAN SEE IT IN A LOT OF HIS PIECES.

HE WASN'T OUT TO CAUSE THE DOWN FALL OF THE REGIME, EVEN.

HE JUST HAD MINOR CRITICISMS OF MOHAMMED BIN SALMAN AND SO IT STIM HAUNTS ME THAT THE IDEA THAT POSSIBLY THE WORK HE WAS DOING WITH US, YOU KNOW, MIGHT HAVE LEAD TO THIS HAPPENING.

BUT YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT THE SAUDI REGIME WANTED HIM TO JUST DISAPPEAR AND AS LONG AS WE STILL TALK ABOUT HIM AND WE STILL TALK ABOUT WHAT HE REPRESENTS, MORE IMPORTANTLY, THAT THEY HAVEN'T SICK SEEDED AS MUCH AS THEY WANTED TO.

>> Braude: I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, KAREN AND JYOTI, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: NEXT UP N ONE OF MY FAVORITE COMEDIES WHAT ABOUT BOB, THE PATIENT BILL MURRAY SAY THIS TO HIS SHRINK RICHARD DREYFUSS, ABOUT WHAT LEAD TO HIS DIVORCE.

>> THERE ARE TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD.

THOSE WHO LIKE NEIL DIAMOND AND THOSE WHO DON'T.

>> AND REGARDLESS OF WHICH SIDE YOU ARE ON IN THAT MAR TAL DEBATE, HAVE I GOT A ROLLICKING, MOVING ELECTRIC NIGHT IN THE THEATER FOR YOU 'A BEAUTIFUL NOISE,' A BROADWAY-BOUND SHOW ABOUT THE LIFE AND MUSIC OF THE MAN WHOSE MUSIC MARKS THE BOTTOM OF THE 8th INNING AT FENWAY, NEIL DIAMOND.

THE SHOW OFFICIALLY OPENED THIS PAST SUNDAY NIGHT IN BOSTON AFTER A BUNCH OF PREVIEW AND A COVID DELAY.

AND SPEAKING OF THERAPISTS, THE DOCTOR TO THE OLDER NEIL DIAMOND, WHO'S WITH US FROM THE SHOW'S BEGINNING TO END, IS PLAYED BY LINDA POWELL, WHILE DIAMOND HIMSELF IS PLAYED BY WILL SWENSON.

AND IN THE CURRENT, MISERABLE WORLD, SUNDAY NIGHT AT THE EMERSON COLONIAL WAS- NO, I WILL NOT SAY SO GOOD, SO GOOD--BUT I WILL THINK IT.

TWO OF THE PLAY'S STARS RECENTLY JOINED ME.

I'M JOINED BY LINDA POWELL AND WILL SWEN SON WHO STARRED IN BROADWAY'S WAIT REST, HAIR AND LES MISSER I BELIEVE.

JUST TO NAME A FEW.

THAT BAS A FUN, CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THAT CLIP YOU PLAY WADE FUN CLIP.

>> ONE OF THE GREATEST EVER.

>> CAN YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT LAND, YOU SAY I WILL SWENSON, GO AHEAD.

>> I WILL-- WHAT AM I GOING TO DO.

>> I WILL SWEN SON, I LINDA POWELL.

>> I WANT YOU TO RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND SAY BEFORE I GOT THE PART I WAS A HUGE NEIL DIAMOND FAN, STARTING WITH YOU, WILL, YOU CAN MAKE THAT REPRESENTATION?

>> I CAN DO THAT, I GREW UP ON HIM, IS HE LITTLE RALLY MY DAD'S FAVORITE ARTIST OF ALL TIME.

IS HE IN MY DNA.

>> Braude: IS THAT TRUE.

>> TRUE STORY.

>> Braude: SO IN YOUR HOUSE WHEN WERE YOU GROWING UP.

>> ON A LOOP.

WE HAD AN AUTOGRAPHED POSTER OF NEIL DIAMOND IN MY GARAGE GROWING UP, NOT EXAGGERATED.

>> Braude: ARE YOU SINCING NEIL DIAMOND, ARE YOU FROM UTAH.

>> I'M FROM UTAH, YEAH, I SWUNG HIM MY WHOLE LIFE, I SANG IT IN HIGH SCHOOL, IN CABARET, MY WHOLE LIFE.

>> Braude: SO YOU CAN MAKE A SIMILAR REPRESENTATION, LINDA?

>> I ABSOLUTELY CAN.

THE SOUNDTRACK TO JONATHAN LIVINGSTON SIEGAL GOT ME THROUGH A VERY TOP OFFERROUS SUMMER BETWEEN 15 AND 16.

IT PLAYED ON A LOOP IN MY EAR FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW LINDA, YOU, YOU ARE THE THERAPIST TO THE OLDER VERSION OF NEIL DIAMOND AND YOU TWO WERE ON THE STAGE ALMOST THE WHOLE TIME, SORT OF THE FRAME FOR THE THING.

I'M WATCHING YOU WHILE WILL IS SINGING SOME RAUCOUS DIAMOND SONG, WERE YOU BOPPING AWAY IN YOUR CHAIR.

AND I COULDN'T TELL IF IT WAS INTENTIONAL, IF IT WAS INTEND ORDER YOU JUST COULDN'T CONTROL YOURSELF, WHICH WAS IT?

>> THE MOMENT THAT I BOP NOW ARE INTENTIONAL.

THE MOMENTS THAT I BOPPED DURING REHEARSAL WERE NOT INTENTIONAL.

>> Braude: I CAN UNDERSTAND.

I WAS DOING IT TOO AND I'M NOT A BOPPING KIND OF GUY EITHER.

WILL, HOW INVOLVED WAS NEIL DIAMOND IN THE RELATION OF THIS THING?

>> A BIT, I MEAN THEY HAD TO OBVIOUSLY PITCH HIM THE IDEA AND SAY CAN WE MAKE A SHOW OUT OF YOUR LIFE, I THINK WHEN THEY WERE WRITING THE SCRIPT AND COMING UP WITH THE OVERALL CONCEPT HE WAS INVOLVED AND KIND OF GIVING HIS OKAYS WITH THAT.

AND THEN HE WOULD COME FOR DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE SHOW, ONCE WE GOT IN THE COMMERCIAL VERSION OF THIS ROUND HE CAME FOR A SOLID WEEK AND POPPED IN AND SANG ALONG WITH US AND GAVE US FEEDBACK AND INCITES SO HE HAS BEEN VERY INVOLVED.

>> DID HE PICK YOU TO PLAY HIM OR NO?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

HE DEFINITELY HAD TO SIGN OFF ON ME, I DON'T KNOW IF HE PICKED ME OUT OF A CROWD BUT HE DEFINITELY HAD TO SAY YEAH, HE IS THE GUY.

>> SO LINDA, GETTING BACK TO YOU AS THE THERAPIST, AS A NEUROTIC NEW YORK JEW MYSELF BY WAY OF PHILADELPHIA, I COULD RELATE TO THE, I'M NEVER GOOD ENOUGH THING THAT THE OLDER NEIL DIAMOND KEEPS SAYING.

TO YOU, BUT IF HE SAYS IN THE SHOW, HE WAS BIGGER THAN ELVIS.

SO WAS THE DARKER TORTURED SIDE FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION OF NEIL DIAMOND, IS THAT TRACK REALITY AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?

>> I THINK IT DEFINITELY DID.

AND HE HAS INTIMATED AS MUCH.

I THINK WHEN YOU ARE A LOT OF FAMOUS PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD STORIED CAREERS LIKE THAT WHO THEN FIND THEMSELVES AT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, I THINK IT IS NOT AN UNCOMMON KIND OF JOURNEY TO GO THROUGH.

>> I BET THAT.

CAN WE CHANGE VENUES FROM THE COLONIAL FOR A SECOND AND GO ABOUT HALF A MILE AWAY.

HERE IS THE SCENE AT FENWAY SOMETIME IN MID JUNE, HERE IT IS ♪ REACHING OUT.

♪ ♪ TOUCHING ME, SWEET CAROLINE.

♪ BA BA BA.

♪ SO GOOD, SO GOOD.

♪.

>> THAT WOULD BE THE REAL NEIL DIAMOND NEXT TO THE PLAY NEIL DIAMOND.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE, WILL, SINGING SWEET CAROLINE AT FENWAY WITH THE MAN HIMSELF.

>> I MEAN, THERE ARE BUCKET LIST ITEMS YOU NEVER KNEW WERE ON YOUR BUCKET LIST, THAT IS ONE OF THEM FOR SURE.

IT WAS INSANITY.

>> BUT YOU WEREN'T DRIPPING IS HE QUINNS LIKE IN THE PLAY.

WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN MORE COMFORTABLE HAD THEY BEEN HANGING ALL OVER YOUR BODY OR NO?

I'M GETTING MORE USED TO THEM BY THE DAY.

>> THEY ARE PRETTY BEAUTIFUL.

WHAT IS IT LIKE PERFORMING NEIL DIAMOND IN FRONT MUCH NEIL DIAMOND.

IT SEEMED TO BE ABSOLUTELY TERRORIZING, I CAN'T IMAGINE THE CONCEPT.

>> ST A HEAD TRIP, I HAVE GOT TO TELL YOU.

SING 20 OF HIS SONGS AS HIM, WITH HIM, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES FIVE FEET AWAY FROM ME, SOMETIMES IN THE AUDIENCE T IS WILD.

ST DEFINITELY AN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE.

BUT HE HAS BEEN INCREDIBLY GENEROUS AND KIND THROUGH THE PROCESS.

>> SO WERE YOU HOLDING YOUR BREATHE THE FIRST TIME HE WAS THERE WHILE YOU WERE SINGING HIS STUFF WAITING FOR HIM.

>> I HONESTLY DON'T REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME IT WAS SUCH AN OUT OF BODY THING.

I WAS LIKE RIP IT, HOLD T AND THEN.

>> I REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME THAT I WAS IN THE ROOM THAT WE DID A READ THROUGH AND HE CAME.

I THINK I TURNED TO YOU WILL AND SAID I'M REALLY NERVOUS BUT I'M GLAD I'M NOT YOU.

SO LIRCHEDA SPEAKING OF BEING YOU, YOU AND I THINK THE-- WHO HAD SOME SWAY OTHER THAN THE NEIL DIAMOND IN HIS YOUNG LIFE, WERE THE ONLY THAT DIDN'T SWING, ARE YOU NOT TEMPTED TO GET UP AND JOIN IN WITH WILL AND THE CAST EVERY SINGLE NEIL DIAMOND SONG, SERIOUSLY?

>> THEY, YOU KNOW, YES PART OF WHY I GET PAID THE BIG BUCKS IS THAT I DON'T DO IT AND I ENJOY MYSELF WHEN I GET TO KOWMENT AND CURTAIN CALL AND GET TO SING ALONG.

I'M NOT REALLY A SINGER AND SO IT IS JUST A THRILL FOR ME TO BE IN A MUSICAL AND EXPERIENCE THE DEGREE OF TALENT THAT SURROUNDS ME EVERY NIGHT, IT'S A BLAST.

>> I'M NOT A SINGER EITHER BUT I WAS SINGING WITH THE WHOLE AUDIENCE AND THERE WAS SOME BROADWAY STAR RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME, WILL WHO WAS CHEERING WILDLY FOR YOU, YOU SHOULD CHECK HER OUT AT SOME POINT, SHE WAS REALLY, PRETTY INCREDIBLE.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

>> I MIGHT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> Braude: YOU MIGHT KNOW.

SO THE FIRST ACT ENDS WITH THIS WILD VERSION OF SWEET CAROLINE, THE PLACE GOES TOTALLY WE SERK AND HAVE I TO TELL THE TRUTH, I'M NOT CRAZY ABOUT IT AT FENWAY T WAS OUT OF CONTROL FABULOUS AT THE THEATER.

THERE IS NO WAY YOU ARE CLOSE THE FIRST ACT IN NEW YORK CITY WHEN YOU GO TO BROADWAY WITH SWEET CAROLINE ARE YOU OR ARE YOU?

>> I THINK THAT IS THE PLAN.

AS LONG AS WE CAN GET IT OUT WITHOUT THE AUDIENCE TAKING OVER.

>> Braude: OR ATTACKING THE CAST.

SO YOU HAVE BEEN IN BOSTON, A LITTLE BIT.

I KNOW THERE WAS A COVID INTERRUPTION, STARTING WITH YOU WHAT IS THE BEST THING, MOST FUN THING YOU HAVE DONE IN BOSTON OTHER THAN THE PLAY ITSELF?

>> WELL, I HAVE STO SAY FENWAY PARK WAS A PRETTY BIG DEAL AND ALSO I AM I WALKED THROUGH THE COMMONS AND THE PARK EVERY DAY TO GO TO WORK.

THAT IS A LOVELY PLUS.

>> HOW BUT, WILL.

>> MY ENTIRE EXTENDED FAMILY CAME OUT FOR OPENING, SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH FOLKS I DON'T GET TO SEE A LOT AND GO ON DUCK TOURS AND DOING THE VERY BOSTON STEREO TYPICAL THINGS.

>> Braude: WE ARE LUCKY TO YOU HAVE.

IT IS JUST SPECTACULAR.

I URGE EVERYBODY STO GO FOR A GREATS TIME.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

I WISH WE COULD HAVE SHOWN YOU A TAPE OF THE PERFORMANCES BY THOSE TWO AND THE REST OF THE CREW NIGHT AFTER NIGHT BUT WEREN'T ABLE TO GET OUR HANDS ON IF, JUST TAKE MY WORD FOR IT OR BETTER YET SEE IT YOURSELF, AND BY THE WAY, IF LINDA POWELL LOOKS FAMILIAR, IT MAY BE BECAUSE SHE IS THE DAUGHTER OF LATE SECRETARY OF STATE COLIN POWELL AND SPEAKING OF FAMILY CONNECTIONS, ITS AFOREMENTIONED BROADWAY STAR WHO I MENTIONED WAS CHEERING WILDLY FOR WILL, IN SEATED IN FRONT OF ME ON OPENING NIGHT, THAT WOULD BE NONE OTHER THAN LEGENDARY SIX TIME TONY WINNER AUDRA McDONALD WHO JUST SO HAPPENED S TO BE HIS WIFE.

AND HER EXCITEMENT WAS ONLY RIVALED BY THESE FANS A FEW PERFORMANCES EARLIER WHEN NEIL DIAMOND HIMSELF WALKED INTO THE THEATER, FOR THE FIRST NIGHT OF PREVIEWS.

THAT MUST'VE FELT...

THIS TIME I WILL SAY IT-- SO GOOD.

YOU CAN STILL CATCH "A BEAUTIFUL NOISE" AT THE EMERSON COLONIAL THEATRE THROUGH AUGUST 7th.

FOR TICKETS AND MORE INFORMATION, HEAD TO: emersoncolonialtheatre.com.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

AFTER 14 YEARS IN PRISON ON A WRONGFUL CONVICTION, ROXBURY'S SHAWN DRUMGOLD GOT A SECOND CHANCE AT LIFE 17 YEARS AGO.

NOW, HIS COMMUNITY IS MOURNING HIS DEATH.

I'LL BE JOINED BY ROSEMARY SCARPICCIO, THE ATTORNEY WHO WON HIM HIS FREEDOM.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND STAY SAFE.

PLEASE DON'T FORGET UKRAINE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org >> HEY FOLKS, EDGAR B. HERWICK III HERE FROM GBH'S CURIOSITY DESK, WHERE YOU ASK QUESTIONS AND I FIND ANSWERS.

TODAY'S QUESTION CAME OUR WAY ON TWITTER FROM EMILY WORDEN.

NOW, WHEN I FIRST SAW THIS QUESTION, I WAS LIKE, "YES, THAT IS SO GOOD.

MICROWAVES DO ALL SOUND THE SAME".

AND THEN I WAS LIKE, "WAIT A MINUTE.

DO THEY SOUND EXACTLY THE SAME?

AND I KNOW THEY SOUND ALIKE BUT LIKE EXACTLY THE SAME?"

LET'S PUT IT TO THE TEST.

OKAY, SO I QUICKLY GOT MY HANDS ON EVERY MICROWAVE I COULD FIND HERE AT WGBH.

MY APOLOGIES TO JAMES IN ACCOUNTING.

I'M GONNA SET THEM ALL TO FIVE SECONDS, AND THEN I'M GONNA PUT THEM ON IN SUCCESSION.

WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HEAR A BUNCH OF TONES AT THE SAME TIME.

THAT SHOULD REALLY GIVE US A SENSE OF IF THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME OR NOT.

(MICROWAVE BEEPING) YUP, YUP, SO THEY'RE ALL RIGHT THERE BETWEEN A FLAT AND A FLAT -- B AND A B SHARP, NOT EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT PRETTY DARN SIMILAR.

AND IT TURNS OUT, THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT.

POPCORN.

FOR DECADES, THE SAME PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY WAS USED IN NEARLY ALL MICROWAVES TO GENERATE THAT CLASSIC MICROWAVE SOUND, A LITTLE DEVICE CALLED A PIEZOELECTRIC BUZZER.

IT'S ESSENTIALLY A MEMBRANE THAT VIBRATES AND IS ELECTRICALLY CHARGED, AND VIBRATES TO CREATE A SOUND, VERY SIMILAR TO THE WAY A SPEAKER WORKS.

PIEZOELECTRICITY WAS FIRST DESCRIBED BY PIERRE AND JACQUES CURIE, WAY BACK IN 1880.

IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN ELECTRIC CHARGE THAT CAN ACCUMULATE IN CERTAIN MATERIALS WHEN PHYSICAL PRESSURE IS APPLIED.

THAT PART, PIEZO, COMES FROM A GREEK WORD THAT MEANS PRESS OR SQUEEZE.

NOW THE PIEZOELECTRIC BUZZER HARNESSES THAT CHARGE TO GENERATE THAT SIMPLE BEEP BEEP.

IT WAS FIRST BROUGHT TO MARKET BY JAPANESE MANUFACTURERS IN THE 1950S, AND QUICKLY PROVED TO BE A WORLDWIDE HIT.

NOW ON THE ONE HAND, THEY'RE PRETTY VERSATILE, USED NOT JUST IN MICROWAVES, BUT ALSO SMOKE ALARMS AND TIMERS AND ALL SORTS OF GADGETS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THEY ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED IN WHAT THEY CAN DO.

WE COULD SET THE FREQUENCY, BUT WE COULDN'T DO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

THE FREQUENCY AND THE LENGTH OF THAT NOTE WAS ABOUT ALL WE HAD AVAILABLE TO US.

(BEEPS) THIS IS WHY, FOR DECADES, NEARLY ALL MICROWAVES HAVE SOUNDED THE SAME.

(BEEPS) BUT TODAY, IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME, THANKS TO DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES DEVELOPED MAINLY FOR MOBILE PHONES, A VERITABLE SYMPHONY OF SOUNDS IS NOW AVAILABLE, LITERALLY AT THE TOUCH OF A BUTTON.

(ELECTRONIC TONES) THERE, SO YOU HEARD THAT LITTLE BEEP AT THE END OF IT, BUT IT'S A LOT MORE ORGANIC, IT'S A LOT MORE MUSICAL, AND IT'S A LOT MORE SUBTLE AND NUANCED.

THIS NEW WORLD ORDER DOES PRESENT SOME CHALLENGES.

AFTER ALL, THAT ICONIC MICROWAVE BEEP MIGHT NOT BE SPELLBINDING, BUT IT IS DEEPLY FAMILIAR.

DESIGNERS LIKE HUGHES HAVE TO COME UP WITH JUST THE RIGHT COMBINATION OF BLEEPS AND BLURPS THAT SAYS, "HEY, THE POPCORN IS READY" JUST AS EFFECTIVELY.

THAT'S THE MAIN OBJECTIVE WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, IS COMMUNICATE TO YOU IN A MEANINGFUL WAY AND A THOUGHTFUL WAY THAT YOUR TASK'S COMPLETE.

(BEEP) DON'T FORGET TO LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE.

AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CURIOUS ABOUT, BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE I MIGHT JUST LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU.

I'M EDGAR B. HERWICK III.

STAY CURIOUS OUT THERE.

GOT TO GO