[MUSIC PLAYING] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today knows what it means to lift communities through education.

As president of the North Carolina Community College System, Dr.

Jeff Cox leads 58 colleges across our Tar Heel State.

His leadership is transforming how North Carolina prepares its workforce for the future.

- Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by: - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors to over 65 million consumers across 14 states and the District of Columbia.

With 17,000 purpose-driven teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years.

Specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with The Budd Group.

- Truist, we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.

[MUSIC PLAYING] - Dr.

Jeff Cox, welcome to Side by Side.

You are the president of the North Carolina Community College System.

That's a big job.

Are there 57 colleges?

How many?

- Actually, 58.

- [NIDO] 58 colleges?

- 58 colleges, yes, sir.

- And they're serving-- how many students would you say?

- We serve a little over 600,000 students across the state of North Carolina.

- Wow.

- Yeah.

- That's a large number.

- Yes.

- And what would we do without community colleges?

Given the fact that companies seem to want to come to North Carolina, they're looking for a prepared workforce.

And the schools that you are in charge of and that you administer at the system level are a force-- - Absolutely.

--in preparing people for big companies like Toyota and Supersonic and all of those.

- Yeah, yeah.

Jet Zero, the last one here, announces 14,000, 14,500 jobs, I think, here in this area.

It's incredible.

But yes, our community colleges are at the heart, very center, of all that workforce development.

Companies these days, when they're coming in, that's the very first question they have is just, where is the talent?

Are we going to be able to find employees that we need?

And our community colleges play a critical role in that workforce development.

- You've been president for 2 and 1/2 years or so.

- Exactly.

- And what would you say is your biggest challenge?

- Well, I think it's both a blessing and a curse, in some ways, the state's tremendous position with economic development, the number one state in the country for business, again, this year.

It's, I think, 30-some thousand new jobs announced in the past year.

So that prosperity creates pressure on an already tight labor market.

So I think, really, our biggest challenge is matching up the population of North Carolina, folks who want a better life, a better job, but may not have the skills that fit exactly where the opportunities are.

So companies coming in, thousands of jobs, they need very specific skills with their employees.

So our community colleges are the bridge between those two, folks who want an opportunity and companies who need that talent with some specific skills.

So it's really region by region leveraging those 58 community colleges to meet the need in their specific region with their employers to make sure we're giving them the talent pipeline they need.

- Is your budget all sanctioned by legislature?

All of your income comes from the legislature, I guess, plus some fees from students.

- The vast majority comes from the legislature.

We have some, of course, federal funds that come through our-- - And county government.

- Yep, and then the county government.

The community colleges are a little bit different from the universities in that the counties play a role in facilities.

So there really is a county buy-in on establishing the facilities at the local level.

Similar to the K-12 schools, they've got that responsibility for-- - The brick and mortar is paid for.

- The brick and mortar.

And even the maintenance of the brick and mortar.

The custodial staff and just grounds and maintenance.

Those tend to be our local expenses.

But the majority of funding, we have about a $2 billion budget from the state that's distributed out across the 58 colleges.

- And does that go individually to the colleges, or does it come through your office?

- It comes through our office.

So we have at the system level, we have-- of course, I'm the system president.

But then we have a staff of about 230 or so employees at the system office.

- Really?

- Yes, that big of an operation.

What do they do, these 200?

- So one of the things is taking that $2 billion budget, and we've got a whole team of finance folks whose job it is to distribute those funds out across the 58.

- And they distribute it based on number of students?

- Mainly based on FTE, the number of full-time equivalent students at each college.

So yeah, there's a formula that's in place there on how those funds get distributed.

But we also play a role with program oversight.

If colleges want to do new curriculum programs, that makes its way up through for approval with our state board system office.

- And there's an accrediting body.

- Right.

- The community colleges are under SACs, are they?

Most of them are.

In fact, I think all of them are currently.

A couple are making a transition to a different one.

But each of our 58 colleges are individually accredited.

So we at the system support that function.

We help provide resources and support for the colleges, but they are individually accredited.

- And so you spend much of your time, I guess, on campuses for sure, but also in Raleigh, in the hallways of the legislative offices that's trying to drum up support for community colleges.

- Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

That's a fact.

We've been trying to push forward a new business model for our colleges that would, we call it, propel and see, but it's a new model to rethink how we're financing our colleges, to really focus more resources on programs that lead to high wage, high demand jobs out in the labor market.

So we're asking the legislature, if you take a program like nursing, for example, we have to be competitive with nurses' salaries, our instructor salaries, because they can make a lot out in the private sector these days.

But also all the equipment, these high fidelity mannequins, are $150,000 each.

And we've got all-- most of our colleges have these high tech simulation labs.

And those are expensive programs to offer.

So you've got limited enrollment of 10 students per class.

And then you've got to cover that with funding from the state.

So we are working with the General Assembly and the governor's office to build support for updating our funding formula to reflect the focus on really making sure we've got adequate funds to support these high wage, high demand jobs in all of our state.

- And those 600-- I think you said 600,000 students enrolled collectively in the 58 colleges.

Do they all pay the same fee regardless what college they go to per class, or each college sets its own tuition and fees?

- That's a great question.

So we have a statewide schedule for tuition and fees.

The base level, and it's about $2,500 a year, tuition and fees is all that folks have to pay to go through one of our curriculum programs.

We also have a standard rate that's charged for non-credit courses.

So continuing education, kind of short term credentials, that caps out at $180 for those classes.

But it is consistent.

Mostly, colleges do have some flexibility with some of their fees.

But it's pretty much standard across the state.

- And many of those schools have, I assume, their own foundation, their own endowment.

And that's done individually, campus, each campus individually?

- It is.

I think each campus really has its own foundation.

They raise money locally to help support students, capital projects, whatever their needs are.

We also have a system level foundation.

We're actually in the middle of a campaign with that where we're trying to raise $75 million.

We just launched that last year.

We've already raised about $50 million of that.

So we're really excited about that.

That money will also go out to support a lot of the good work that's happening across the 50 states.

- Most of that comes from corporations?

- We had a huge piece from Arnold Ventures, this private philanthropy.

They gave us about $36 million to launch a program.

It's a replication of the ASAP model that was done up in the CUNY system in New York.

It's basically wraparound services for students.

We know most of our students who stop out or drop out, it's not because of academics, but life has happened.

And the tire blew out on their car, they lost the transmission, and they need some resources to support them, to keep them involved.

So that grant is helping us with 15 colleges to be able to roll that program out and really provide that support for students.

- Now, I don't know where I read this, but I assume it's correct information, that when the economy is less than good, your enrollment goes up.

When the economy is really good, your enrollment-- I mean, I'm sure it shifts from college to college, but generally speaking, it goes down.

Yeah, that's generally true.

COVID sort of turned that on its head a little bit.

But historically, you're exactly right.

The economy's booming, enrollment tends to go down, things get tough, people come back to reskill.

We tend to see our enrollment go up during economic downturns.

Like I said, COVID was kind of the opposite of that.

Things got tough, and we lost pretty substantial enrollment during those couple of years.

- And why is that?

What is that phenomenon?

Is it that they have jobs?

- Yeah.

- Or is it fear that I don't have a job, and therefore I better skill up, so to speak?

- Right.

I think that's exactly it.

When the economy turns down and jobs are harder to come by, yeah, they need new skills.

They've got to upskill, get some new skills, new credentials to help them go be more competitive in a tight labor market.

The phenomenon that happened with COVID is labor got really tight, wages went up, and so some of our students that historically would have come to a community college to get a degree or credential saw that the opportunity was there to make more money than what had been available before.

And so we found a lot of folks were going straight on into the labor market.

Now, that's leveled out.

We're back now ahead of where we were prior to COVID, but it's continuing, just like the university system.

We've got to keep making that value proposition, helping folks understand that college education is worth it.

We know it is.

But that gets questioned these days.

And we have to keep making that case to students.

Particularly, I worry about there's about 40% of our high school students who aren't going anywhere to college when they graduate.

- Not even a community college.

- Not a community college, not the university.

- They're just going to the labor market?

- They're just going into the labor market or staying at home, and some even not participating in the labor market.

So we've got to do a better job collectively in higher education to get that 40% some kind of post-secondary degree or credential.

Because we know the pathway to the good life is education.

That's going to be a game changer for those students if we can get them even a short-term credential.

It'll really help them go out and get a job that pays a living wage.

- It's a difficult question to ask for the president of the community college system.

But you seem like a fair leader to me.

And I'm sure you'll give me an honest answer.

There's a lot of talk about, should I go to a large public institution?

Should I go to a private institution?

Or should I go to a community college?

And then, of course, should I go to any school at all?

How do you interpret that concern or that level of questioning?

What is it that you say to people who might ask you that question?

- That's a great question.

So I would say that I've kind of lived the example that I would say.

All three of my own personal children-- I've got three young boys who are 25, 23, and 21 years old.

All three of them went through our Wilkes Community College Early College High School.

So they all got their first two years at one of our great community colleges when I was president there at Wilkes.

So my personal counsel is, all the education you get is going to be good.

I think the more education you get, the more opportunities you're going to have.

So I encourage folks to think about us as your first option.

Start with the community college.

Get those first two years.

The data is clear for our students who complete two years with us and then transfer either to public or private universities.

They actually outperform the native students because they do really, really well when they transfer.

- Outperform in terms of earnings?

- Grades, like their success rate when they get into the university.

They do very well.

Because-- - Academically, they do better.

- Academically, they do better, just marginally.

But folks believe sometimes that they maybe are kind of lower tier students.

They may not do as well.

But they actually do really well.

So I think a lot of what I tell folks is with that 40% who aren't going anywhere, we have to get them introduced to thinking about college in a different way.

It may be a short-term credential, a 15-week program to go be an electric lineman.

They can get out and make $75,000 a year as a lineman with 15 weeks invested.

But real economic mobility, the data still suggests, comes with a baccalaureate degree.

So our college-- - Upward mobility.

- Upward mobility is still tied to the baccalaureate degree and above.

So we have great college transfer programs with both our public and private universities.

And so for students to get their first two years with us and transfer, we think that's a great option for students.

- But you went to Appalachian-- - I did.

--and then UNC Charlotte-- - Yes.

--for your graduate work.

- I did.

I actually got both my bachelor's and master's degrees at Appalachian and then went to the doctoral program at UNC Charlotte.

- So you mentioned that some students in high school-- - Right.

--connect to a community college-- - Yes.

--earn some credits-- - Yes.

--which then they can transfer-- - Absolutely.

--to a four-year institution.

- Absolutely.

- Does every community college have that program?

- Yes.

All of our colleges have dual enrollment programs.

We actually have about 95,000 students who are dually enrolled across the 58 campuses.

- Do these tend to be scholastically more advanced students?

- Typically, they are, though it is a bit of a hybrid because some of those dual enrollment programs are based with career and technical education programs.

And they don't have quite the same academic pressure that the general college transfer classes do.

But generally, those kids perform very, very well.

They're some of our best and brightest students because they come to us while they're still in high school and they're taking those college classes.

A lot of them, of course, if they're in an early college high school, they'll finish their two-year degree before they graduate.

We have some in traditional high schools who actually finish a full two-year degree by taking summer courses, evening courses.

And they come out and they're ready to go on to university.

How do they ensure that every university they want to go to will admit those credits and verify them?

And does every university do that?

- Right.

So we've got great partnerships with both our private and public universities in North Carolina and a lot in other states, frankly, where we do have a universal articulation agreement where they will accept all those credits, particularly if they finish the full two-year degree, the whole thing transfers.

So students aren't left with having to pick and choose or universities picking and choosing which credits they'll accept.

The only challenge that I think we still have to work our way through gets into when students are picking a specific major.

So for example, you're going to go get your engineering degree at one of our universities.

And students may or may not know when they're in high school which university they're going to attend.

And which prerequisites they must have.

Exactly.

So at High Point University, it may be one thing.

At NC State, it may be something else.

At Chapel Hill, each university, public and private, has its own set of different standards, which is part of the accreditation process.

But it complicates things a little bit for a high school student who doesn't know where they're going to go.

Or even if they're going to go to public or private.

So figuring out how to go from the universal articulation agreement to get down into those majors so students won't lose credit, I think, is the next step of something we've got to work on.

- I heard recently that so many North Carolina students, meaning students graduating from high school in our Tar Heel state, choose to go out of state to college.

And that SEC schools like Alabama and Georgia and maybe South Carolina, those schools are attracting so many of those students.

- They are.

- And then what fascinated me is that the state of Alabama, as an example-- and I hope my data is correct.

I believe it is-- that only 37% of those enrolled in the University of Alabama come from the state of Alabama.

- Wow.

Yeah.

- Which suggests that these schools are traveling across the nation from border to border and coast to coast and recruiting these students because it's out of state money for them.

- That's right.

- And it enhances their revenues.

What is your take on that in North Carolina?

Are you familiar with how many North Carolinians are leaving the state to get that education?

And furthermore, I guess the bigger really question is, how many students from North Carolina who attend North Carolina supported institutions like public and community colleges choose to stay in North Carolina and raise a family and start a business and create economic impact for our state?

- Right.

Well, I think it's a great question.

And I think those other states like Alabama that you mentioned, they're not working so hard to attract students from other states just out of benevolence.

You know, they realize-- - Economic advantage.

- Yeah, they're bringing those students in.

And they know those students come there, live there, go to school there.

There's a pretty good chance they're going to plant roots and stay there.

And that's part of the concern that I have when we're losing North Carolinians to other states to go pursue higher education.

And we've got so many opportunities here between our community colleges, our public and our private universities.

No one should ever have to go anywhere outside of North Carolina for a great education.

We've got one of the best, probably the best-- - That's well-known across the nation.

- Absolutely.

All three of our systems, public, private, and community colleges, all seen nationwide as models.

- There's 17 private schools in the system, 58 community colleges, and 35 private institutions.

- That's right.

Yeah, it's astounding, really.

You can't go anywhere in North Carolina and be more than about a 30-minute drive away from an educational institution, higher education.

- Is that true in rural North Carolina as well?

You grew up in Allegheny County.

- Yep.

And so you have an understanding of rural North Carolina.

I've had guests on this show talking about health care in non-urban areas or sometimes the scarcity of that or the lack of access to that.

When it comes to education, is that also true?

Or there's access to everyone?

- So I think our forefathers really got it right with our community colleges in that they wanted, really, to have that access immediate, in close proximity to anywhere in the state.

So like the example you gave there, where I'm from in Allegheny, Wilkes Community College is in Wilkesboro.

But we've got campuses or centers in both Ashe County and Allegheny County.

So students in any of those counties can have easy access to community colleges.

And that's true broadly across the state.

I would say 95%, 97% of the state is within a 30-minute drive of a community college campus or location.

- You know, when you were at Wilkes Community College, it was well known that your graduation rate doubled during your tenure as president.

How did you do that?

That's very difficult to do.

- Well, we really went through a strategic planning process and just showed the data that we had.

We had so many things to be proud of at the college.

But we also had some things we needed to work on.

And that graduation rate was hovering about 25%, which was not uncommon among other colleges in North Carolina and nationally.

It was actually kind of on par.

But we went through an exercise and talked with the faculty and staff about it.

You know, that means that one out of four students who come here with the intention of graduating is actually getting across the finish line.

And I asked the faculty-- - Why do students drop out?

- Well, any number of reasons.

A lot of our students are part time.

Most of our colleges have more than half the students are part time.

They're working two or three jobs, raising a family, and trying to complete their education as they can.

But as I mentioned earlier, life happens.

And a lot of these students just economically are living right on the verge of a crisis.

So when that happens, often they have to pick.

I've got to scale back taking courses so I can pick up another part time job to make ends meet.

So I've had stories of students taking 20 years to stop in, stopping out, coming back before they ever finally finish that degree.

So that happens with our students.

But we put all of our attention on that issue and got all the faculty to really buy into this.

We're going to change this one course at a time.

So if you're the English instructor and you've got 25 students in your class and a third of them are not achieving credit at the end of that class, we have to look at that.

You have to think, what can you do differently as an instructor to get those final students over the hump?

- Inspire and educate and-- - Absolutely.

--and mentor, if you will.

- Absolutely.

So we put in comprehensive supports around the students.

We introduced a college promise program.

We raised enough money to ensure that every kid in Wilkes-Ashe and Allegheny could come to Wilkes tuition free.

So we helped relieve that financial barrier for students.

So it wasn't one thing.

It was dozens of things that we implemented.

But we're seeing those same good results, by the way, across many of our community colleges that focus on completion.

And it's not enough just to enroll students.

If they don't finish and earn a credential, we've really done them a disservice.

So that's the focus.

- You were honored with an Aspen Presidential Fellowship.

I believe that was for community excellence.

- [COX] Yeah, so there were 40 folks who the Aspen Institute identified across the country to participate in this presidential fellowship.

They do that each year.

But I was fortunate enough to get into that.

And actually, my capstone project for that program was our new strategic plan and identifying, kind of putting a stake in the ground to say we're going to double this completion rate in five years.

- And you did it.

- We did it.

We did it.

- Well, Dr.

Cox, thank you for being with me today.

And thank you for all the good that you do across our state as you inspire and mentor these community college students and their leaders.

- Well, it's an honor of a lifetime to be able to lead this community college system.

So I appreciate that.

And thank you for having me here with you today.

- Thank you, sir.

- Thank you.

[MUSIC PLAYING] ♪ - Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by: - Coca-Cola Consolidated makes and serves over 300 of the world's best brands and flavors to over 65 million consumers across 14 states and the District of Columbia.

With 17,000 purpose-driven teammates, we are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

- The Budd Group has been serving the Southeast for over 60 years, specializing in janitorial, landscape, and facility solutions, our trusted staff delivers exceptional customer satisfaction.

Comprehensive facility support with The Budd Group.

- Truist-- we're here to help people, communities, and businesses thrive in North Carolina and beyond.

The commitment of our teammates makes the difference every day.