- Hi, I'm Donna King, filling in for Marc Rotterman.

North Carolina's Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson joins us to discuss education in North Carolina, the upcoming legislative session, and what's next for this outspoken powerhouse in North Carolina politics, next.

- [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" with Marc Rotterman is provided by Robert L Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities, and by... [soft upbeat dramatic music] Funding for the Lightning Round provided by Nicholas B. and Lucy Mayo Boddie Foundation, A.E.

Finley Foundation, NC Realtors, Rifenburg Construction, Stefan Gleason.

A complete list of funders can be found at pbsc.org/frontrow.

[soft upbeat dramatic music continues] ♪ - Welcome back, joining me today is North Carolina's Lieutenant Governor, Mark Robinson.

Thank you for being here.

- Thank you for having me here.

It's a pleasure.

- It's good to see you.

I'm so glad to see you here right here at the holidays.

And I know we all have a lot to be thankful for- - I always certainly do.

- this time of year.

- Absolutely.

- I'm very blessed.

- Yes, yes, so this week's been a big one, though, for education in North Carolina.

State Board of Election meetings, this is something you do, you sit on for as your role in lieutenant governor, but there really were some controversies this time around, namely licensure for charter schools.

Tell me a little bit about how that debate went.

- Well, unfortunately, I missed the debate and I had to recuse myself from one of the votes because of some things that I'm connected with, but it was very contentious.

And my concern with the entire thing, and we won't get into the particulars, but my concern is I want to continue to make sure that charter schools and those who run charter schools are treated fairly across the board, that people aren't held to a higher standard or unfairly treated because of political pressures or because of entities that they may work for.

And I think we saw a little bit of that maybe in the vote for those schools this past, just of yesterday.

So our concern is to always make sure that all charter schools are held to the exact same standards and that the folks that are making those decisions aren't making them based on political beliefs or on ideologies that have nothing to do with the substantive issues of a charter school.

- Now, a charter school is a public school.

- Absolutely.

- it's part of the public school system.

- Absolutely.

But it has a unique role in that it operates a little bit independently.

Do you find that you're hearing constituents say, "Look, we're looking more at charter schools," particularly over the last two or three years?

We're seeing an increase in enrollment.

- Oh, absolutely.

Charter schools, when they're operating well, we have parents that are flocking to charter schools.

Unfortunately, many of our public schools are not performing well.

That's not the fault of our teachers or our administrators.

I lay that blame specifically at the feet of the school bureaucracy itself.

But parents are looking for different options, homeschool, private school, charter schools.

And we need to make sure that those options are open for all of our parents regardless of what socioeconomic station they find themselves in.

They need to have that choice.

And so we wanna make sure that those schools and the folks that operate those schools are treated fairly and held to one standard across the board and not several sets of standards.

- Sure, and the vast majority of North Carolina students do go to traditional public schools either way.

- Absolutely, for sure.

- So, you know, that's something that we've seen a lot, particularly during shutdowns and that kind of thing.

You've talked a little bit about, you know, a parent's bill of rights or something like that coming through the legislature.

We have session starting up in January.

Do you think there's an appetite for something like that this time?

- Oh, absolutely.

I think there's a huge appetite, if not for the legislature, and I'm sure there are many in the legislature that have that appetite, but the bigger concern is the appetite that we see in the general population.

The Virginia elections of a few years ago, one of the driving forces, the second driving force, as a matter of fact, was education.

Parents are getting out like never before.

One of the things that COVID did was to expose many of the things that are going on in education that our parents object to.

And parents are getting involved.

They're running for school board, they're going to school board meetings, they're going down to their schools.

And when they find themselves being dissatisfied, they're actually taking their children out of these institutions and finding places for them to go.

So there is a huge appetite for that.

And just my philosophy in general is this, the very first tenet of a great education system is an education system that not only involves parents, but allows parents to choose and allows parents to be the person that is in charge of their children's educational destiny.

We have got to have that here in North Carolina, and we've got to make that a reality.

- Sure.

I mean, I think parent involvement is a good thing.

I mean, I was a PTA president.

- Absolutely.

- And I know you've been involved too.

What are you hearing from parents about what they found?

Because there were some silver linings.

I think a lot of kids maybe thrived in online school and have found that as a homeschooling option, or things like that.

Do you think this is a permanent change or do you think it was a lockdown change, parents' engagement in public schools?

- I don't think so.

And I think one of the things that's happened, and not just because of the lockdown but because of some other things that have come to light, I think a lot of our parents are shocked and dismayed about some of the materials that have been presented to our children in public education.

They're very dissatisfied, and they're also dissatisfied with the statistics.

The most shocking statistic would be the fact that we spend, you know, 50% of our state budget on education and we're having a difficult time teaching our children to read on a grade level.

That is not a good statistic.

The recent statistics that came out from the federal government on the poor performance of schools across the board, all of this stuff is waking our parents up and getting them involved.

And that is exactly what we need.

Because like I said, in order for an education system to be successful, the number one tenet needs to be parental involvement.

- Sure, but you've also taken some criticism for, you know, talking about books and materials that are in some elementary school.

I think the term banned books has come up, which is a really loaded, very powerful term for a lot of folks.

- Absolutely.

- Explain a little bit about what you meant and what you were saying about those materials.

- So I'm not in favor of banning any book.

[chuckles] What I'm in favor of as following the law.

And the law prescribes that adult materials, as prescribed by the law, shouldn't be presented to minors.

And in many of our education systems, we are seeing that happening.

There are many, many books that are being presented to our children that have highly objectionable, highly adult materials that are not suited for minors.

You know, you can't take your children to an R-rated movie if they're under 17 years old, or they're not allowed to go by themselves.

A child cannot visit an X-rated website.

The law says that that cannot happen.

If I was to give these materials to a child at a park, I could be held criminally liable.

The same standards should be true in our school system.

There's ways to teach children about all types of things in our schools, but it does not include, that does not include presenting them with adult materials.

And we see that happening far too much in our schools.

- Sure, sure, and speaking of education, I'm worried also about the next level, high school, apprenticeships, college, job training.

Those things are critical, and some of those things went away or were challenged during some of these shutdowns.

Talk a little bit about the North Carolina apprentice program, apprenticeship program you've gotten involved in.

- Well, that's one of the things we're most proud of in our office, is the fact that we were able to secure over $11 million for apprenticeships in this state.

My philosophy, again, one of my philosophies about education is this, we really need to bring back, we need to bring back the premise that a four-year degree, while a four-year degree is great if that's the route you want to go on, that is not the only pathway to success in this country.

We have to open up the myriad of ways that our children can make successful careers, and that includes apprenticeships, that includes the skilled trades.

We have got to get folks back into those things.

There are many children out there that want to pursue those things, but they find themselves faced with these decisions made by educators to push a four-year university degree.

Again, there's nothing wrong with a four-year university degree.

If that's your plan and your purpose, then take that route.

But if you want to be a mechanic, you want to be a plumber, you want to be an electrician, we should have readily available tools and systems for our students to move into so that they can do those things successfully.

- And you can make good money.

- Absolutely.

I mean, that some of that is sort of, you know, how we envision those roles.

- Absolutely.

- But we need to shift it.

- And not only can you make good money, we have so many programs in this state that you could move into, learn those trades, and come out debt free.

And that's a huge thing.

- That is a huge thing.

We hear a lot about student loan problems, but that doesn't happen as much with the trades?

- That's exactly right.

These folks are coming out debt free and making 60, 70, $80,000 a year.

And that's a good thing and that's what we want.

That energizes people and gets them ready to set up a great life.

- What about starting new businesses and, you know, the longterm financial gains of this?

- For sure, if you look across the board, a lot of our skilled trades, plumbers, electricians, those professions are doing what we call they're aging out.

Those folks are older.

We need younger people to move in, learn from those folks, build their skills up, and then start their own businesses so we can continue to have the services that we need.

- That's exciting, 'cause- - It is very exciting, yes.

- I mean, it's hard to find.

It is hard to find.

Now, one of the things that we've got coming up here in the next six weeks, month or so, just after Christmas, as North Carolina's lieutenant governor, you sit as president of the Senate, tell me what you're expecting from this session.

So the Senate now has a supermajority, which means, you know, with Republicans having 30 seats, that body could override a gubernatorial veto.

The House is one shy, they're probably not as able to.

In the Senate, does a supermajority change what you're expecting to see from them?

- I'm not sure yet.

And we are being very cautious about what we're gonna see out this cycle.

We've got a lot of work to do and we don't want to take the opportunity to put a put anyone in a box right now.

We've really got to, as a party, we have really got to take a look at everything that we have on the board, everything that our constituency wants us to go to Raleigh to fight for.

We've gotta lay that all out, and we've got to make careful steps.

We're in a great position right now.

We're in a great position, but if we make missteps that could cost us dearly, we could really ruin a golden opportunity.

So we really need to take a step back, evaluate what's going on, and move forward cautiously.

And I'm sure the Senate is gonna do just.

- Sure, sure, so some of the issues that we've been talking about, Medicaid expansion.

This is something that Republicans and Democrats have been divided on for quite a while.

We saw Senate Leader Berger, you know, sort of switch course and say, you know, "We might be able to find a path forward, the Senate passing it."

Do you have any inkling of what might happen in this session with Medicaid experience?

- I do not.

I've had some conversations with some of my colleagues, and they're as varied as the opinions are across this country.

But one of the things I was most impressed with when I stepped into this role was how level-headed and how sensible that all of my colleagues are in the Senate.

The Senate is a place where we oftentimes work very hard to find common ground.

And I'm sure that whatever course of action we take in the future, I believe it's going to be the right one, because they're very cautious in their steps and they usually make the right decisions.

- Sure, sure, any issues that you're particularly looking for out of the session, you know, education, anything like- - Absolutely.

Always with education.

We're always looking for quality education legislation that's gonna continue to build a quality education here in North Carolina and reverse some of the sad trends that we've been seeing over the years.

Our current superintendent is working very hard on the literacy issue.

And anything that we can do in the legislature to help her continue to do that, we're gonna fight hard to make sure that happens.

- Sure, some of those test scores that did come out, you mentioned them a minute ago and talking about someone's educational destiny.

It's difficult to picture some of the kids that went through these shutdowns.

You can't just, you know, write them off and let them move on.

- Absolutely.

- They've got a destiny to find.

- That's exactly right.

I imagine it almost like being on a wagon train in the old days.

You know, if somebody could just magically drag that wagon train back 500 miles or 1,000 miles, it makes it just that more difficult for you to reach the ultimate goal, the ultimate destiny.

And that's what's happened with our children.

COVID really pulled them back and held them back.

And we've got to figure out some inventive and creative ways to get them caught up, because we cannot allow that lag to cause a failure in their lives.

- Sure.

Like what?

Like, you know, we talked a little bit about summer education.

What do you think should be some of those efforts to catch them up?

- I think, and this is just my opinion, I think that that should be left up to the teachers.

I think we have not given the teachers the opportunity to be able to do what they can do in the classroom, to use their talents in the classroom to combat these challenges.

We have leaned on the legislature, we have leaned on high-ranking administrators and others to do this job.

What we really need to lean on is the experts, and the experts are the teachers and the principals.

We need to allow them to apply their talents to bring those things to light and operate.

- To operate there, because they have brought them up, you know.

Teachers have done tremendous yeomen's work- - Absolutely.

- bringing them up to speed as far as they can.

- Absolutely.

- But it's not easy.

- You just can't say enough about the job that our teachers do under the difficult situation that they find themselves in now, not just with COVID, but with other things, the discipline issues and others.

Those folks go to work every day under very difficult circumstances and get the job done every day.

We need to make sure that we make their jobs and their lives better.

We need to increase their pay, we need to treat them like professionals, and we need to allow them to be able to use their talents in that classroom fully.

- Absolutely, shifting gears a little bit, energy policy.

This is something that we're thinking a lot, particularly as the temperatures drop, gas prices go up.

You know, families are working on, you know, just keeping things going every single month.

But the long term strategy, you know, what should our energy policy, do you think we'll see anything this session?

I know you've got a group that's working on this.

- Yes, we do.

We have some things that we're working on, and, you know, we really don't have time to go into it fully here, but I can give you just a broad overview of how I feel about- - yeah, please.

- the energy policy, and here it is, I think that energy should market driven.

The moves that we currently see by the federal government and by other states, even here in this state, to push electric vehicles, to push fossil fuels out, It's been very damaging to families.

It's been very damaging to our farmers who are finding it difficult to fuel their vehicles and buy fertilizer to continue to grow the food that we need.

What we really need to do in this nation is this, and I firmly believe this and I'll continue to say it, number one, we need to be energy independent.

We need to drill for oil on our own shores.

Why?

Because we can do it better, faster, and safer.

And we take care of the environment better than anyone on this planet.

We need to drill for our own oil.

And while we are doing that, we need to continue to study the effects on our climate and continue to search for the next best option to fossil fuels.

We have not found that option yet.

We are not ready for electric vehicles.

We don't have the infrastructure, and quite frankly, I don't believe that we have the natural resources.

We need to find solutions that are gonna work, and the solutions that we're gonna find are going to be in common sense science and in the market itself.

- So we're seeing a lot of, you know, regulatory requirements for things like electric vehicles.

What do you think?

So then you think we're not there yet, we're not in a place where the government can start mandating use of electric vehicles?

- Absolutely.

We're not, and I think if we do it, we're gonna find ourselves in a very bad place in many sectors.

In fact, we already have, as I mentioned with farmers.

That's one of their number one issues is fueling their vehicles, buying fertilizer.

It's very tough for right now, and the reason why is because of bad federal policy.

And that policy is being driven by those who have adhered to climate change instead of adhering to common sense.

- Sure, sure, now you have a new book out.

That's something we talked about a little bit, "We Are the Majority."

In that book, you do say that, you know, you're very seriously considering running for governor.

You know, I think that you've gotten a lot of support about it.

What draws you to that role?

- Well, what draws me to it more than anything is the support that we get from the people across the state.

I cannot tell you how many times, you know, I go places and people shake my hand and say, "Oh, I'm shaking a future governor's hand."

[Donna chuckles] And it's very encouraging to be able to have the support, and more than anything, the confidence that we've been able to build up in folks.

And I think that's largely due to the vision that we've built up, that our team has built up and the encouragement that we give to the citizens of North Carolina.

So that gives us great energy to wanna move forward to possibly do that.

- Do you feel like, one that about North Carolina that I love but is also frustrating, we're very blue in some areas and very red in others.

Do you feel like that message speaks to everybody across the state, urban and rural?

- We do.

We do.

We feel like the message that we have speaks to everybody.

Certainly, with some of the social issues, we're gonna find resistance.

But overall, one of the things that I've been saying is this, you know, we may not agree on two or three issues, but if you take the average North Carolina citizen, two citizens, where they're Republican and Democrat standing beside each other, there may be three issues that they vehemently disagree on, but there'll be 10 others that they do agree on.

And we need to come together as a state and as a people, quite frankly, in this nation, and know when we need to set some of our differences aside to work for greater goods.

And that's what we intend to do.

- Absolutely, and, actually, you talk a little bit about that in your book.

You talk about developing that servant leader, that heart in young people and helping them find their servant leader, you know, what their plans are.

I have two daughters and a son.

It's hard.

It's hard raising kids in a cultural environment where they might not find the opportunity to lead as much as others would.

What is your advice as you go through this?

And how do you view what we should be doing to develop that next generation of servant leader?

- The number one thing, it goes right back to what we're talking about and the thing that touches everything, education.

Education is the key to the pursuit of happiness.

And if we are not properly educating our kids and not allowing them to have a quality education, if we're not allowing their parents to be in charge of their educational destiny and allowing teachers, talented teachers to drive the educational system, we're doing our children a disservice.

So that's the number one thing that we've got to do.

We've got to make sure that we open up every educational opportunity possible to the students of this state.

I believe if we do that, we'll find ourselves in a great place in the future with our leaders.

- Sure, What about, you know, families and church and communities?

I feel like one of the leftover scars from COVID shutdowns is that we've sort of lost touch with our neighborhood JCs and our church community and families are becoming more isolated.

- Absolutely, that's a huge part of it.

That's a huge part of it.

One of the worst things that happened during COVID was the separation of people.

We see how important connectivity is, collaboration actually is.

And we have got to get back to that in our communities.

We've got to start bringing people back together for the purposes of moving forward to make our communities better.

- Absolutely, so what else are you gonna be looking for as we go into this new year?

You know, we've got 2023, they say 2024 elections started the day after the 2022.

But we still have a year to go.

What are you hoping to see for North Carolina coming out of the next year or 18 months?

- There are several things that I'm hoping to see.

I'm certainly hoping to see a reversal of the decisions we made concerning voter ID.

I'm certainly hoping to see a continuation of the economic success that North Carolina has experienced since 2011.

The efforts that we've done so far have been fantastic, but we've got a lot more that we can do.

We see a lot of great economic opportunity on the horizon.

We need to continue to make sure in Raleigh we do the work that we need to do that opens the door even more to economic opportunity.

And of course, there again, there is that huge education piece.

We need to start right now on the process to correct every ill that we have in education, because that's gonna be the key to our future.

- Sure, a lot of these, you were talking about economic development, a lot of the companies coming into North Carolina.

Do you feel like they are hiring from within and providing some of those apprenticeship opportunities?

And how do we make sure that our students are getting a chance to get in that door and not just having companies bring people with them?

- There's a mix of that, but those companies are gonna bring opportunities all the way around.

You know, there's a huge swath of opportunities.

when you talk about building a big company in a small town, that opens opportunities, not just within that company, but it opens up opportunities in that communities.

People that move there are gonna need, they're gonna need services and folks can start new businesses.

And there's gonna be a call for more plumbers and more electricians and more workers in grocery stores and other places and restaurants and things of that nature.

So it opens up opportunities across the board.

That is why it is so important to teach our children about all the opportunities that exist, because it's not just the opportunity inside that factory that's open to you.

There's also all the extended opportunities around that factory that you can make a reality for your dreams.

- Sure, sure.

That's what we were talking about, mechanics, and, you know, dry cleaners- - That's exactly right.

- and all of these service industries that are a critical part of building this multi-generational town.

- That is exactly right.

- Sure, sure.

- Yes, ma'am.

- So, you know, as we close out 2022, I can't believe we're already there and welcoming in 2023, do you have any New Year's resolutions, personally, professionally, anything like that?

- Well, personally, it's not really a New Year's resolution, it started far before New Year's, I've made a commitment to my health.

I was at a very bad place in my health during my campaign and the beginning part of my administration.

And I made a commitment to take my health into my own hands, because, you know, we talk a lot in this state and in this nation about healthcare, about it being a right.

I happen to think that healthcare is a responsibility, and that responsibility starts with the person in the mirror.

And the biggest part of healthcare is self-care.

So many of the things that we suffer with in this nation, diabetes, heart disease, strokes, those things are caused by poor decisions that we make every day.

I know the people of this state are very wise and very strong, and I want to encourage each and every one of them to do the same thing that I've done, which is take your health into your own hands.

Exercise, eat well.

When you wake up in the morning and look at yourself in the mirror, say, "I matter, and I can't do anything for anyone if I can't do anything for myself first."

And so that's one thing that we've really taken hold of and we're really gonna try to continue in that vein, because I wanna look like a completely different person this time next year.

- Well, we wanna be able to recognize you.

- Absolutely.

Yes ma'am.

- So that's good.

Well, that is exciting.

I think a lot of folks are taking on those exact same types of resolutions.

I know in our family, we're committing to, you know, reading a book a month and talking about it at the kitchen table and rebuilding some of those connections.

But it's critical and multi-generational connections.

- Absolutely, absolutely.

For sure.

- Fortunately, we have, you know, good technology to allow us to do that.

I really appreciate you coming in and joining us on "Front Row."

And of course your book, "We Are the Majority," what inspired you to write that?

- Well, you know, I gave that speech in front of the Greensboro City Council back in 2018 that went viral.

And the two things that people told me more than anything is, "You need to run for office," and, "You need to write a book."

And so we got the opportunity to write a manuscript with a friend of mine, and then we were connected with a publisher.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

So we decided to do what I think is most important for anybody, We told our own story.

We didn't want anyone else to tell our story, not Wikipedia, not any news agency.

We wanted to tell our own story.

So we wrote it down for all time in our book.

- I remember seeing that Greensboro video and it was remarkable.

Not many people can capitalize on a moment like that and change their destiny.

- Yes, absolutely.

- Absolutely.

- Absolutely.

Yes, ma'am.

- Wonderful.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate all of your time.

Thanks for coming in, and have a great new year.

- Thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure being here.

- Thank you, and thank you for joining us.

Thanks for watching "Front Row."

[soft upbeat dramatic music] ♪ - [Announcer] Major funding for "Front Row" with Marc Rotterman is provided by Robert L. Luddy.

Additional funding provided by Patricia and Koo Yuen through the Yuen Foundation, committed to bridging cultural differences in our communities, and by... [soft upbeat dramatic music continues] Funding for the Lightning Round provided by Nicholas B. and Lucy Mayo Boddie Foundation, A.E.

Finley Foundation, NC Realtors, Rifenburg Construction, Stefan Gleason.

A complete list of funders can be found at pbsc.org/frontrow.

[soft upbeat dramatic music]