- COULD ERRORS BEING MADE IN NORTH CAROLINA'S FOOD ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS SPARK A $400 MILLION FEDERAL PENALTY?

AND IS OUR STATE PREPARED FOR NEW FEDERAL MEDICAID RULES THAT COULD INCREASE STATE BUDGET STRESS?

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♪ - WELCOME BACK TO STATE LINES.

I'M KELLY MCCULLEN.

JOINING ME FOR THIS WEEK'S ANALYSIS OF ALL THE TOP STATE ISSUES, MITCH KOKAI OF THE JOHN LOCKE FOUNDATION.

HELLO, MITCH.

- HELLO.

- KIMBERLY REYNOLDS, MAVEN STRATEGIES, IS HERE, AS IS DAN FOREST OF NC CAPITAL STRATEGIES, AND DAWN VAUGHAN, OF THE NEWS & OBSERVER, PRESS CORPS CHIEF, WOULD THAT BE RIGHT?

- PAST PRESIDENT OF THE PRESS CORPS.

CAPITAL BUREAU CHIEF.

- CAPITAL BUREAU CHIEF.

SEE, I ALWAYS GET IN TROUBLE FOR THAT, BUT THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AS WELL.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

PULL UP A CHAIR, FOLKS.

I WANT TO TELL YOU ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA FACING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN EXTRA COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH FEDERAL FOOD OR FOOD STAMP BENEFITS.

SOME NEW FEDERAL RULES WILL PENALIZE U.S.

STATES FOR MAKING EXCESSIVE, ERRORS IN BENEFITS PAYMENTS.

NORTH CAROLINA'S NEAR 11% ERROR RATE COULD RESULT IN A 15% FEDERAL FUNDING CUT.

THAT'S ABOUT $450 MILLION, MITCH, IN STATE MONEY THAT WOULD NEED TO BE FOUND.

TWENTY OTHER STATES HAVE ERROR RATES THIS HIGH, FACE THE SAME PENALTY, BUT THERE ARE EIGHT STATES OUT THERE BELOW 6% IN ERROR RATE, AND THEY GET 100% FEDERAL FUNDING.

HOW ABOUT THAT FOR ACCOUNTABILITY?

- YEAH, CERTAINLY.

THIS IS PART OF, OF COURSE, THE SO-CALLED ONE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL THAT CAME OUT OF THE U.S.

CONGRESS LAST YEAR THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD SUPPORTED.

AND THE IDEA WAS TO ADD SOME MORE ACCOUNTABILITY TO THESE PROGRAMS THAT COST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND THERE ARE SEVERAL PIECES OF THIS THAT ARE NOW GETTING NORTH CAROLINA OFFICIALS SCRAMBLING.

THEY LEARNED A LOT ABOUT IT THIS WEEK.

SOME THINGS LIKE HAVING TO DO SOME MORE WORK REQUIREMENTS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO NEED TO ADD SOME STAFFING TO PAY FOR THAT, TO ENFORCE THE WORK REQUIREMENTS.

THEY'VE, THEY'RE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF WHO'S GOING TO, WHO'S GOING TO QUALIFY FOR THESE DIFFERENT TYPES OF BENEFITS NOW.

AND THEN THE, THE THING THAT YOU WERE ALLUDING TO THAT I THINK WAS PROBABLY NEWS TO MOST PEOPLE WAS THE HIGH ERROR RATE IN DEALING WITH THESE FOOD BENEFITS.

AND NORTH CAROLINA, THE, THE REPORT SHOWED THAT THE RATE WAS OVER 10%.

BUT THEN THE OFFICIAL WHO TALKED ABOUT IT SAID, WELL, IT'S ACTUALLY IMPROVED.

IT'S NOW ONLY 7%.

- OKAY, SO 7%?

- YEAH, SO IT HAD BEEN 10.

IT WAS DOWN TO 7%, WHICH IS GOOD, WHICH IS IMPROVEMENT, AND WHICH WOULD HELP NORTH CAROLINA NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR FOOD.

IT WOULD HELP NORTH CAROLINA NOT HAVE TO PAY AS MUCH.

BUT STILL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE, THAT NORTH CAROLINA IS GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT THEY HADN'T BEEN EXPECTING BEFORE THIS BILL WAS PASSED IN CONGRESS.

- HOW COULD THEY NOT HAVE EXPECTED IT, KIMBERLY?

THIS IS REPUBLICANS DOING REPUBLICAN POLICIES AT A FEDERAL LEVEL AFFECTING REPUBLICAN POLICIES AT THE STATE LEVEL.

- WELL, I THINK THEY HAD A RELATIONSHIP WHERE THESE THINGS WEREN'T IN PLACE BEFORE.

THERE IS AN AGREEMENT WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PAYS 100% OF THE BENEFIT, BUT THEY SPLIT THE ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS.

SO THEY HAVE TO PAY AS MUCH.

THEY WEREN'T ANTICIPATING THIS.

SO YOU DO SEE SORT OF THIS TWEAK AND MANIPULATION OF THE FORMULA THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN SHIFTS THE BURDEN QUIETLY TO THE STATES, AND THEREFORE, IF CUTS TO THE PROGRAM HAVE TO COME, IT'S THE STATE'S FAULT THAT THE PROGRAM GOT CUT AND NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT I THINK IT'S MOST IMPORTANT TO REALIZE THIS BURDEN.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE 1.4 MILLION PEOPLE THAT GET THE SNAP BENEFIT.

500,000 OF THEM ARE CHILDREN.

I THINK IT'S 150,000 OF THEM ARE OVER THE AGE OF 65.

AND IT'S THESE RURAL COUNTIES.

AND IT'S THESE RURAL COUNTIES WHO ARE ALREADY STRUGGLING, WHO CAN'T FIND GAPS IN THEIR BUDGET TO FILL THESE GAPS AT THE COUNTY LEVEL.

SO IT'S AN UNFUNDED MANDATE THAT COULD REALLY IMPACT RURAL COUNTIES AND THEIR CITIZENS WHO RELY ON THESE BENEFITS.

- DAN, IT'S A GREAT TIME TO NOT BE A POLITICIAN RIGHT NOW IN NORTH CAROLINA.

- IT'S MUCH EASIER JUST TO TALK ABOUT IT.

- LOTS OF CHALLENGES HERE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAVE, IN MY OBSERVATION, YOU KNOW, WE'LL TALK ABOUT MEDICAID.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT SNAP.

THESE ARE FEDERAL PROGRAMS, WHAT CREATED BACK IN THE 60S, THAT REQUIRE FEDERAL, FEDERAL FUNDING AND FEDERAL COOPERATION.

AND NOW, 60 YEARS LATER, IT'S BEING PUSHED DOWN TO THE STATES.

NORTH CAROLINA DID NOT INVENT FOOD STAMPS AND THEY DID NOT INVENT MEDICAID, AS WE WILL TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT LATER ON.

IF YOU'RE A STATE CONSERVATIVE BUDGET WRITER, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THESE UNFUNDED MANDATES HANDED DOWN FROM CONGRESS, FROM YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT?

- WELL, IN THIS ECONOMIC TIME, WHEN THE BUDGET'S A CHALLENGE ANYWAY AND MONEY'S TIGHTER, YOU GO, "UH-OH," YOU KNOW, AND YOU TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IT'S GOING TO COME FROM.

THEY ALWAYS FIGURE IT OUT IN THE END AND THEY WILL THIS TIME, TOO.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WHO ALL ALONG HAS SAID, "IT'S 100%," I MEAN, YOU KNOW, SNAP WAS FUNDED 100% BY THE FEDS, AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, SAYING VERY QUICKLY, BY THE WAY, BECAUSE OF THE BIG, BEAUTIFUL BILL, VERY QUICKLY WE'RE GOING TO MOVE AND WE'RE GOING TO ADD THIS LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY THROUGH THE ERROR RATE PROCESS.

AND THIS ISN'T FRAUD, BY THE WAY.

FRAUD'S A SEPARATE CATEGORY FROM ERROR RATE.

BUT BECAUSE OF THAT, THIS IS GOING TO PUT A MASSIVE BURDEN ON THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA.

AND THE GOAL WOULD BE TO REDUCE THAT.

WE DON'T WANT, FIRST OF ALL, WE DON'T WANT 12.5% OF OUR POPULATION TO BE ON THE SNAP PROGRAM.

BUT FOOD PRICES ARE THROUGH THE ROOF.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT.

EVERYBODY'S FEELING THE PAIN AT THE GROCERY STORE FOR FOOD.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ECONOMIC ENGINE FOR RURAL NORTH CAROLINA, WHERE SOME OF THESE GROCERY STORES GET 35, 50% OF THEIR REVENUE FROM SNAP.

AND THESE GROCERY STORES WOULD GO AWAY IF THE PROGRAM WASN'T THERE.

SO THE STATE'S GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FILL THIS GAP THAT EXISTS OR GET THAT ERROR RATE DOWN BELOW 6%.

- DAWN, DAN BROUGHT UP A POINT.

I WANT TO STATE IT AGAIN.

THIS IS NOT THE WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE YOU'RE HEARING ABOUT IN NATIONAL HEADLINES.

MY UNDERSTANDING FROM MY RESEARCH IS THESE ARE ERRORS.

MAYBE SOMEONE GOT TOO MUCH FOOD BENEFITS.

SOMEBODY MAY HAVE GOTTEN LESS THAN THEY DESERVED OR WERE OWED, WHICH CREATES THE ERROR.

IS THAT ACCURATE?

- SO I THINK THIS, I DON'T KNOW THE IN THE WEEDS LEVEL OF IT, BUT FINDING THIS OUT, AND ADDITIONALLY WITH WHAT THE FEDERAL BILL HAS PUT THIS MONEY RESPONSIBILITY ON THE STATE FOR SNAP AND OTHER THINGS.

AND NORTH CAROLINA STILL DOESN'T HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE STATE BUDGET.

THEY DIDN'T PASS ONE LAST YEAR.

WE'LL SEE IT IN THE SHORT SESSION.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT MORE THINGS THAT THE STATE IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR.

AND TOUGH DECISIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE MADE ON WHAT ISN'T GOING TO BE FUNDED ANYMORE.

- AND I THINK AN INTERESTING PIECE TO ADD TO THAT IS, OF COURSE, ALMOST EVERYONE WHO THINKS ABOUT THE STATE BUDGET THINKS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY SHOULD HAVE PASSED THE STATE BUDGET LAST YEAR.

IT'S THEIR MAIN JOB WHEN THEY COME BACK.

BUT IT ACTUALLY COULD BE A BENEFIT OF THEM NOT PASSING A BUDGET LAST YEAR THAT THEY HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY.

THEY HAVEN'T ALREADY SPENT THE MONEY THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO CLAW BACK OR SAY, SORRY, WE TOLD YOU WE WERE GOING TO DO THIS, BUT WE CAN'T.

SO I THINK WE ALL WOULD SAY THEY STILL SHOULD HAVE PASSED A BUDGET.

BUT PERHAPS AN UNINTENDED POSITIVE BENEFIT OF THEM NOT FINISHING A BUDGET WILL BE THAT THEY WILL HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY TO DEAL WITH THIS NOW.

- MORE PRESSURE.

- CERTAINLY MORE PRESSURE.

DO YOU THINK THE STATE CAN GET THAT ERROR RATE DOWN BELOW 6% AND RECAPTURE THAT 15%?

THAT COULD HAVE THEORETICALLY BEEN REMOVED.

I KNOW IT'S GOING TO BE LOWER THAN THAT IF IT'S ONLY A 7% RATE.

CONFUSING RATIO HERE.

BUT THE HIGHER YOUR ERRORS, THE MORE THE FEDS ARE GOING TO WITHHOLD.

CAN THEY GET THERE, YOU THINK?

- MY GUESS IS THAT WILL CERTAINLY BE A GOAL.

I MEAN, IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WAS CALLED ON IN THE PAST.

SO PROBABLY ONE OF THE REASONS THEY HAD THE ERROR RATE THAT THEY DID WAS THAT NO ONE CALLED THEM ON IT.

NOW THAT THE MONEY THAT YOU'RE GETTING IS TIED TO YOUR ERROR RATE, MY GUESS IS SOMEONE'S GOING TO MAKE THAT A PRIORITY.

- WELL, SPEAKING OF CLAWING BACK FUNDS, KIMBERLY, NORTH CAROLINA LAW CALLS FOR ENDING MEDICAID EXPANSION, IF FEDERAL FUNDING WERE EVER TO BE DIMINISHED OR LOWERED, WELL, NEW INCOMING FEDERAL MEDICAID RULES HAVE SOME OF OUR STATE'S BUDGET RIDERS WORRIED.

ONE, AN IMPORTANT ONE, REPRESENTATIVE DONNIE LAMBETH AND NORTH CAROLINA'S DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SUGGEST THEY'LL NEED A FEDERAL EXTENSION ON TIME SO THEY CAN IMPLEMENT NEW REGULATIONS ON WORK RULES AS WELL AS INCREASING COMPLIANCE.

LAMBETH SAYS THE STATE BUDGET CANNOT AFFORD THESE NEW REGULATIONS WITHOUT CUTTING THE STATE BUDGET RAISING NEW REVENUE OR ENDING MEDICAID EXPANSION WHICH I THINK HE USED A TERM KIMBERLY NUCLEAR NUCLEAR SO GEORGE BUSH INTERPRETATION - IF I SAY IT WAS THE INCORRECT WAY I'LL TAINT THE WHOLE ROOM HOWEVER THOSE ARE THREE OPTIONS AND IT SEEMS TWO TO THREE OF THOSE WOULD NOT BE PALATABLE TO REPUBLICAN BUDGET WRITERS WHAT GIVES?

- WELL I MEAN I THINK YOU KNOW WE'VE SPENT A DECADE TRYING TO GET MEDICAID EXPANSION WE DID THAT WE WERE ONE OF NINE STATES THAT IMPLEMENTED THE TRIGGER RULE WHERE IF THE FEDERAL FUNDING WENT BELOW 90% WE WOULD HAVE TO CUT I THINK IT WAS TO ME POSITIVE THAT IT WASN'T THE FIRST THING THAT THEY WERE LIKE LET'S GO AND CUT THIS BUT I THINK THERE ARE REAL CONCERNS YOU HEARD IT OUT OF DHHS YOU HEARD IT FROM REPRESENTATIVE LAMBETH THAT SAID IT'S NOT ONLY THAT THEY SAID THAT YOU HAD TO CHANGE IT IT IS THE SPEED IN WHICH THEY SAID THE IMPLEMENTATION HAD TO HAPPEN AND ANYBODY YOU KNOW THIS WHO'S WORKED IN STATE GOVERNMENT SPEED IS NOT REALLY WHAT THEY'RE KNOWN FOR THESE ARE BIG ENGINES BIG INFRASTRUCTURE COSTLY INFRASTRUCTURE AND THEY NEED TIME SO THERE'S REAL CONCERN IF THEY CAN'T GET THAT EXTENSION.

- DAN WHICH IS MORE PALATABLE HERE IF THEY FACE THE WORK REQUIREMENTS AREN'T GOING TO GO AWAY AND THAT LOCAL BUREAUCRACY NEEDED TO ENSURE COMPLIANCE WILL NOT GO AWAY ONE BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL IS HERE TO STAY AT LEAST FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION.

- I MEAN YOU KNOW BASED ON THE YOU KNOW NATURE OF THE COUNTIES HAVING TO TAKE CARE OF THIS AND HAVING TO TRACK ALL OF THE THINGS THAT THEY'RE TELLING THEM TO TRACK NOW THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO TRACK BEFORE THE COUNTIES ARE YOU KNOW BUREAUCRACY IS PROBABLY GET LARGER THEY'RE GONNA NEED MORE MONEY THEY'RE GONNA NEED MORE STAFF TO ACTUALLY COMPLY WITH THESE THINGS WHICH THEY DON'T HAVE NOW SO YOU KNOW 80% OF OUR STATE IS RURAL THEY DON'T HAVE FUNDS TO DO THESE THINGS WHERE IS THE STATE GONNA PITCH IN TO HELP THE COUNTIES ACTUALLY MEET THE NEEDS THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY COMPLY WITH WITH THIS AND IT'S A SHORT ORDER AS KIMBERLY SAID YOU MAY HAVE TILL THERE'S A THERE'S A TRIGGER OCTOBER THIS YEAR AND THEN THERE'S A THE BIG TRIGGERS OCTOBER OF NEXT YEAR RIGHT SO THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE AT THE COUNTY LEVELS WHERE THEY'RE NOT STAFFED APPROPRIATELY TO DO IT THAT'S WHERE THE REALLY WHERE THE RUBBER IS GONNA MEET THE ROAD ON THIS.

- DAWN, I'VE I MISSED THAT PART OF THIS DEBATE OVER ALL THESE MONTHS WHEN YOU'VE BEEN ON THE SHOW REGULARLY IS WE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT THE STATE HAVING A BURDEN FROM THE FEDS AND WE I HAVE OVERLOOKED QUITE FRANKLY AS HOST OF THIS SHOW IT'S LOCAL GOVERNMENTS NOW THAT ARE BEING PRESSED ON BY FEDERAL OFFICIALS AND FEDERAL POLICY.

- I FEEL LIKE THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LIKE YOU KNOW WHO DO YOU BLAME IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING'S TAKEN AWAY YOU KNOW AND THE FEDS HAVE DONE THIS TO THE THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL I REMEMBER THE MEDICAID EXPANSION FIGHT IT WAS SO LONG AND THE BIGGEST THING AND WHAT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR REPUBLICANS TO COME IN LINE WITH DEMOCRATS GOALS ON WAS WHAT'S IT GONNA COST THE STATE AND IF THINGS ARE COSTING THE STATE MORE AGAIN THIS LIKE HOW DO YOU TELL PEOPLE YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE THIS AWAY AND REPRESENTATIVE LAMBETH YOU KNOW VERY SERIOUS LONGTIME HOUSE REPUBLICAN BUDGET WRITER WAS ONE OF THE PROPONENTS OF MOVING TOWARD EXPANSION BEFORE IT HAPPENED BUT BEFORE EVEN THESE THINGS THE LEGISLATURE STILL ARGUING ABOUT REBASE WHICH IS JUST THE THE MONEY NEEDED TO FUND IT THIS THIS PAST YEAR'S LEVELS AND THERE'S THE FIGHT WITH GOVERNOR STEIN OVER IT AND TALKING ABOUT ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS THAT'S ONE THING THAT SENATE LEADER PHIL BERGER HAS POINTED OUT IS HOW MUCH THE DHHS HAS EVEN SPENT AT THE STATE LEVEL ON ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS WITH MEDICAID SO I THINK WE'RE GONNA SEE THE SAME TYPE OF THING WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SNAP ABOUT THESE THESE PRESSURES AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL AND THE MONEY'S GOT TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE OR IT'S JUST GONNA BE LESS MONEY.

- AND IT'S REALLY HARMFUL TO VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES WHICH ARE A LOT OF THEM ARE IN THESE RURAL COMMUNITIES YOU'RE SAYING 80 COUNTIES OR RURAL COUNTIES THEY DON'T HAVE THE TAX BASE TO MAKE THIS UP THEY DON'T YOU CAN'T JUST RAISE PROPERTY TAXES YOU CAN'T PASS A REFERENDUM THEY DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AND SO YOU'RE JUST GONNA HAVE A BAD DECISION AFTER BAD DECISION.

- WELL DID NOT DAVE BOLIEK TEE THIS UP WITH HIS REPORT ON THERE'S A BILLION DOLLARS IN OPEN JOB SALARIES IN THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND SOME OF THESE JOBS ARE YEARS VACANT AND THAT WELL HE'S NOT JUDGING WHETHER IT NEEDS TO BE WE I THINK EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT IS BEING SUGGESTED HERE IS THERE ENOUGH GOLD IN THAT POT TO OFFSET THIS AND MAKE IT EASY FOR REPUBLICANS THIS SPRING?

- IT'S NOT GONNA MAKE IT EASY FOR REPUBLICANS THEY MAY BE ABLE TO ON THE MARGINS TAKE SOME MONEY THAT'S IN SALARIES AND USE IT FOR OTHER THINGS BUT I THINK THAT ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT'S INVOLVED HERE WITH THIS MEDICAID THING IS IF YOU REMEMBER WHEN THE REPUBLICANS TOOK OVER THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN 2011 ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAD BEEN STRUGGLING WITH FOR SEVERAL YEARS AND REPUBLICANS DID IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT THEY WERE IN OFFICE WAS THE FACT THAT MEDICAID FOR YEAR IN A YEAR OUT WAS NOT ONLY GROWING EXPONENTIALLY BUT NO ONE WAS ABLE TO PREDICT HOW MUCH I MEAN YOU COULDN'T JUST SAY IT'S PROBABLY GONNA GROW 10% YOU DIDN'T KNOW THEY FINALLY GOT A HANDLE ON IT AND THEN AFTER THIS LONG DEBATE ABOUT MEDICAID EXPANSION FINALLY DECIDED OKAY WE'RE GONNA DO EXPANSION BECAUSE THE FEDS ARE GONNA COVER IT AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN THE FEDS AREN'T COVERING IT ANYMORE AND SO THERE'S A BIG HEAPING PROBLEM RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM OF HOW TO DEAL WITH THIS BECAUSE EVEN GROUPS LIKE MINE THAT TOLD THEM FOR YEARS AND YEARS DON'T DO MEDICAID EXPANSION NONE OF US EXPECTED THAT IF THEY EVER DID IT THAT THEY WOULD THEN GO BACK AND TAKE IT AWAY.

- AND SO IMMEDIATELY.

- YEAH - AND THE REPUBLICANS IN THE STATE TOLD IT WON'T BE A PROBLEM AT ALL FOR ANYONE THAT'S WHAT THE CONGRESSMAN TOLD PHIL BERGER, DESTIN HALL.

WELL WE'RE HERE WE'LL DEAL WITH IT WON'T ME AS A STATE AND AS TAXPAYERS.

- WELL AND AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO THIS HAS GOT TO BE VERY INTERESTING FOR IS OUR FORMER SPEAKER TIM MOORE WHO WAS PART OF THE WHOLE OPERATION OF GETTING THIS MEDICAID EXPANSION THEN WENT TO CONGRESS AND WAS PART OF THE EFFORT TO MAKE THE STATE PAY FOR IT.

- YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS DENIED REQUESTS TO HOLD EARLY VOTING AND SUNDAY VOTING SITE IN 12 NORTH CAROLINA COUNTIES THE WAY IT WORKS IS IF LOCAL ELECTION BOARDS CAN'T UNANIMOUSLY AGREE ON CERTAIN DECISIONS THE STATE BOARD GETS TO STEP IN AND DECIDE IT CERTAINLY DID THAT WITH THE REPUBLICAN MAJORITY DAN REJECTING EARLY VOTING SITES AT ELON UNIVERSITY UNC GREENSBORO NORTH CAROLINA A&T AND WESTERN CAROLINA.

NOW THE COUNTIES COLUMBUS GREEN WAYNE HARNET BRUNSWICK AND CRAVEN HAD SOME SUNDAY VOTING REQUESTS THOSE WERE ALL DENIED AND BRUNSWICK AND CRAVEN COUNTIES DID NOT HAVE SUNDAY VOTING IN THE LAST SIMILAR ELECTION TO WHAT'S UPCOMING THE 2022 MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

I CAN'T TELL HOW MUCH OF THIS IS VOTER SUPPRESSION VERSUS LET'S PUT A REQUEST IN WE KNOW WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR AND LET'S MAKE A HEADLINE OUT OF IT.

- YEAH I THINK IT'S THE LATTER I MEAN IT COMES AROUND EVERY TWO YEARS THIS IS NOT NEW IT REALLY IS EVERY TWO YEARS THESE REQUESTS COME UP AND THEY GET DENIED OR SOME GET ACCEPTED BUT YOU KNOW THAT JUST TO KIND OF SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON IT WE DO HAVE 17 DAYS OF EARLY IN-PERSON VOTING 17 DAYS YOU HAVE ELECTION DAY THAT'S 18 DAYS OF IN-PERSON VOTING AND 51 DAYS OF ABSENTEE MAIL-IN VOTING SO IT'S THERE'S NOT ANY SUPPRESSION THERE I MEAN THE REALITY IS THEY'RE STILL ONLY IN THIS ELECTION WILL BE WHAT MAYBE 50% OF THE POPULATION SHOWS UP TO VOTE AFTER YOU HAVE 50 DAYS OF VOTING SO PEOPLE AREN'T THAT INTERESTED IN VOTING TO BE HONEST SO ADDING MORE DAYS AND MORE LOCATIONS AND ALL THOSE TYPES OF THINGS DOES NOT REALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

THERE THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM BUT THERE'S THERE'S NOT VOTER SUPPRESSION THIS IS A THIS IS A GOOD POLITICAL FOOTBALL IT GETS KICKED AROUND IT WOULD GET KICKED AROUND EITHER WAY AND NO MATTER WHICH POLITICAL PARTY IS IN CHARGE BUT THERE WERE SOME CHANGES OBVIOUSLY MADE TO THE ELECTIONS BOARD AND THE MAKEUP OF THE ELECTION BOARD REPUBLICAN VERSUS DEMOCRAT BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY TAKING SOME POWERS AWAY FROM THE GOVERNOR AND THOSE TYPES OF THINGS SO IT CREATES A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A NEW STORY NOW.

- DAWN IS THIS A STATEWIDE NEWS STORY IT IS A IT'S A IT'S A IT'S A BUREAUCRATIC REQUEST AND IT GOES THROUGH JUST AS DAN WAS SAYING BUT IT DOES IT DOES RING THE CHIMES BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TO VOTE AND VOTE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER THESE DAYS.

- PEOPLE HAVE ARGUED OVER YOU KNOW VOTING TIMES FOR I'VE COVERED STATE GOVERNMENT FOR I THINK SEVEN YEARS NOW AS BEFORE I WAS EVEN COVERING STATE GOVERNMENT THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA GO AWAY IT'S ALWAYS GONNA BE AN ISSUE AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA ON WHO VOTES WHEN I THINK THERE'S OBVIOUSLY POLITICAL STRATEGY DEPENDING ON THE MAKEUP OF THE MAJORITY OF A BOARD AS FAR AS LIKE WHAT ENCOURAGES SOME PEOPLE TO GET OUT AND VOTE AND MAYBE A POTENTIAL HURDLE IF IT'S ALREADY BEEN IN PLACE AND YOU YOU TOOK IT AWAY ESPECIALLY WITH WITH WEEKEND VOTING A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE AT WORK ALL DAY YOU KNOW MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY AND IF YOUR TIME TO VOTE IF YOU WANT TO EARLY VOTE ON ON SUNDAY OR WHATEVER IS CONVENIENT FOR YOU.

BUT I DO FEEL LIKE THAT THERE IS MORE VOTING THAT I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST BECAME A VOTER AS FAR AS LIKE THE OPTIONS AND AND IT'S VERY IN THE WEEDS AND A LOT OF WHAT WE DO YOU KNOW MY COLLEAGUE KYLE INGRAM AT THE N&O, AS FAR AS TELLING PEOPLE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENCES WITHIN THE COUNTIES AND AND THE KNOWING WHAT YOUR POLLING PLACES FOR EARLY VOTING AND AND YOU KNOW ELECTION DAY VOTING AND AS POLITICAL REPORTERS LIKE WE IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU NEED LIKE THE SPREADSHEET TO FIGURE OUT HOW EVERYTHING GOES MUCH LESS THE AVERAGE VOTER JUST WANTING TO KNOW YOU KNOW LIKE HERE JUST LIKE THE BASIC EXPECTATIONS YOU CAN HAVE AS FAR AS GOING TO VOTE AND THEN OF COURSE HOPEFULLY RESEARCHING THE CANDIDATES BEFORE YOU DECIDE.

- MITCH THE ONLY SITE I THINK THAT HAS HISTORY GOING BACK TO 2022 IN TERMS OF A EARLY VOTING SITE WOULD BE WESTERN CAROLINA UNIVERSITY AND THAT WOULD NOT BE HELD THIS TIME.

IT'S WORTH A MENTION BUT VOTER TURNOUT IS RISING NO MATTER WHAT THEY SEEM TO DO WITH EARLY VOTING PEOPLE WANT TO PARTICIPATE.

- ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THIS TO ME IS THIS THIS OF COURSE WAS DECIDED AT A STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS MEETING AND THERE WERE A NUMBER OF COLLEGE STUDENTS WHO SHOWED UP TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THEM NOT HAVING THE VOTING SITE AND MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS WELL YOU WERE ABLE TO DRIVE TO RALEIGH TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS BUT YOU CAN'T DRIVE THE MILE AND A HALF TO THE POLLING SITE THAT'S UP THERE.

THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT THIS ARE WE HAVE A HUNDRED COUNTIES IN 88 OF THE COUNTIES THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS AGREE COMPLETELY ON WHAT THEIR EARLY VOTING SITE SHOULD BE.

IN THE OTHER 12 COUNTIES WHAT YOU TENDED TO HAVE WAS THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE NOW THE MAJORITY ON THE BOARDS AFTER DAVE BOLIEK TOOK OVER CONTROL OF THE ELECTIONS BOARDS SO FLIP FROM DEMOCRATIC CONTROL TO REPUBLICAN CONTROL.

THE REPUBLICANS ON THE BOARDS TENDED TO SAY HEY FOR THESE FOR THESE PRIMARIES LET'S CUT SOME OF THE EXPENSES ON THESE PLACES WHERE WE'VE HAD EARLY VOTING AND NO ONE SHOWS UP.

YEAH.

LET'S JUST SHUT THOSE DOWN AND THE DEMOCRATS SAID WELL NO I MEAN WE NEED TO HAVE SUNDAY VOTING NEED TO HAVE THESE COLLEGE SITES AND THAT WAS THE DISAGREEMENT SO THE 12 CASES WENT TO THE STATE BOARD AND THE STATE BOARD BASICALLY WENT ALONG WITH WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WHO HAD THE MAJORITY ON THE COUNTY BOARD SAID IN ALMOST EVERY CASE IN IN ONE CASE A REPUBLICAN IN COLUMBUS COUNTY HAD GONE ALONG WITH THE DEMOCRATS AND HE GOT OVERTURNED BUT OTHERWISE IT PLAYED OUT AS THEY NORMALLY DO.

- I HAVE IDENTIFIED THE PROCESS GUY ON OUR PANEL YOU KNOW YOUR BUSINESS ON THIS YOU FOLLOW.

- WELL I FOLLOWED IT A LITTLE BIT JUST BECAUSE I SAID OKAY 12 COUNTIES THAT MEANS IN 88 OF THE COUNTIES THEY ALL AGREE.

- WHICH IS SHOCKING.

- I WAS SHOCKED BY THAT NUMBER.

BY PARTISAN WIN.

- LAST WORD TO YOU ON THAT.

- WELL I MEAN YOU YOU MENTIONED WESTERN CAROLINA IT'S JUST LIKE WE ARE TALKING THE MOUNTAINS AND THE GUY ON THE BOARD WAS LIKE NO PROBLEM THEY CAN JUST WALK 20 MINUTES IS NOT 20 MINUTES IN THE HILLS OF NORTH CAROLINA COULD BE VERY DIFFERENT THAN A 20-MINUTE STROLL IN RALEIGH.

SO I MEAN LET'S BE CLEAR IF THESE VOTERS AND THESE HOURS AND THESE LOCATIONS HAD IN REPUBLICANS MIND BENEFITED THEIR VOTERS THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT THOSE IN PLAY.

SO BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY I DON'T THINK THESE WERE HUGE OVERHAULS IN ANY OF THESE COUNTIES.

- AND THIS COULD ALSO CHANGE FOR THE GENERAL ELECTION BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE PRIMARY ELECTIONS THEY COULD HAVE MORE SITES WHEN MORE PEOPLE ARE EXPECTED TO BE THERE.

- U.S.

SENATOR TOM TILLIS AND A FORMER REPRESENTATIVE PATRICK MCHENRY HAVE CRITICIZED THE U.S.

DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S INVESTIGATION OF FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN JEROME POWELL.

MCHENRY TOLD THE 2026 ECONOMIC FORUM THE DOJ INVESTIGATION OF MR.

POWELL IS QUOTE DEEPLY OFFENSIVE TO FED INDEPENDENCE AND IS THE WRONG THING TO DO.

IN SEPARATE COMMENTS RETIRING U.S.

SENATOR TOM TILLIS SAYS HE'LL OPPOSE ANY REPLACEMENT FED CHAIRMAN RIGHT NOW.

DAWN I DON'T NORMALLY TALK ABOUT DC POLITICS BUT INFLUENTIAL LEADERS IN NORTH CAROLINA ONE'S RETIRED AND THE OTHER ONE IS RETIRING SO TAKE THAT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.

BUT SOMEBODY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE HAS IS TAKING A PUBLIC STANCE AGAINST TRUMP POLICIES.

- I FEEL LIKE SENATOR TILLIS JUST LIKE HAS HE'S BEEN UNLEASHED NOT RUNNING AGAIN YOU KNOW TO SAY WHAT HE THINKS ON ON EVERY ISSUE TO PUSH THINGS YOU KNOW OF COURSE HE'S HE STILL WANTS TO DO WHAT WHAT HIS CAUCUS WANTS HIM TO DO BUT HE'S ALSO GONNA BE WILLING TO BE THE OUTLIER BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WHO'S DONATING TO HIS REELECTION CAMPAIGN AND AND THAT SORT OF THING AND THAT'S FREEING FOR HIM TO SAY YOU KNOW NO THIS IS YOU KNOW THE STANDARD WE SHOULD HAVE HE'S BEEN CRITICAL OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT TRUMP POLICIES EVEN WHEN HE EVERYBODY THOUGHT HE WAS RUNNING FOR REELECTION YOU KNOW AND MCHENRY'S YOU KNOW THE SAME THING THAT HE HAS THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK MORE FREELY AND THEY'RE BOTH WORTH LISTENING TO THEY BOTH SPENT A LOT OF TIME SERVING NORTH CAROLINA AND THEY'RE YOU KNOW PRETTY STRONG ON ON TRUMP TARGETING POWELL.

- DAN YOU'RE NO LONGER IN OFFICE OF COURSE BUT IS THERE A PRESSURE THERE TO FOLLOW THAT PARTY LINE ARE YOU LESS OF A REPUBLICAN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH A REPUBLICAN?

- THERE IS IN DC.

OH YEAH DEFINITELY IN DC.

I MEAN YOU YOU REALLY NEED TO FOLLOW THE LINE.

BUT AGAIN LIKE AS DAWN SAID HERE'S YOUR RETIRED MEMBER OF CONGRESS AND A RETIRING MEMBER OF CONGRESS SO IT'S AGAIN NOT REALLY A NEW STORY THAT REPUBLICANS ARE TURNING AGAINST TRUMP THESE GUYS ARE NOT BIG TRUMPITES TO BEGIN WITH.

THE STORY REALLY IS THE UNDERLYING STORY OF WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE FED AND POWELL AND WHERE THE ARGUMENT CAME FROM YOU KNOW TRUMP USED THE 2.5 BILLION DOLLAR RENOVATION PROJECT OF THE FED BOARD HEADQUARTERS THAT'S NOW 600 MILLION DOLLARS OVER BUDGET TO SAY HEY HE CAN'T EVEN RUN HIS OWN PROJECT HOW CAN HE RUN THE YOU KNOW FINANCIAL ECONOMY OF OUR COUNTRY SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THAT STINK CAME FROM YOU KNOW RELATED TO THAT ISSUE ALONE.

BUT TRUMP'S CAUGHT BETWEEN A REAL ROCK AND A HARD PLACE RIGHT NOW HE NEEDS A FED CHAIRMAN THAT'S GOING TO REALLY PUSH TO REDUCE INTEREST RATES BECAUSE HE'S GOT A MIDTERM ELECTION COMING UP THAT THERE'S PROBABLY NO WAY THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE ANY REPUBLICAN SUCCESS IN THIS MIDTERM BUT IF HE CAN DRIVE DOWN INTEREST RATES AND GET THE ECONOMY GOING A LITTLE BIT IT'S GOING TO HELP A WHOLE LOT SO HE'S GOING TO KEEP PUSHING ON IT.

- KIMBERLY THE LEFT THE RIGHT DOES THIS TOO YOU LOWER THOSE INTEREST RATES WHEN YOU'RE ALREADY AT THREE TWO POINT SEVEN PERCENT INFLATION.

INFLATION GOES UP WHEN YOU LOWER INTEREST RATES AND SPUR ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

IF YOU RAISE INTEREST RATES OF COURSE THE ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN THEY SAY.

IS IT A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE AND WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THESE OUTGOERS THESE THEY'RE STILL NORTH CAROLINA LEADERS AND ARE INFLUENTIAL THEY'RE SNIPING AT THE REPUBLICAN LEADER.

- I THINK IT'S WHAT THEY SHOULD DO I MEAN I THINK PEOPLE FIGHT ABOUT A LOT OF POLICIES BUT THIS ONE SEEMS TO BE TAKING IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL I THINK ALARM BELLS ARE GOING OFF EVERYWHERE YOU'VE SEEN THE TREASURY SECRETARY COME OUT AGAINST IT AND SAY IT'S A MESS YOU'VE SEEN A LOT OF ECONOMISTS YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE CORPORATIONS YOU KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF BEHIND-THE-SCENES CONVERSATION THIS ISN'T JUST PACKED THE IMPACT THE INTEREST RATES IN THE UNITED STATES.

I AM NO ECONOMIST BUT YOU'RE HEARING SOME ALARMING THINGS ABOUT THE WORLD AND HOW THIS IS GOING TO IMPACT HOW THEY SEE US HOW THEY VIEW US SO I THINK THIS IS A DIFFERENT SCENARIO I'M GLAD THAT A RETIRED CONGRESSPERSON AND A RETIRING US SENATOR BUT I THINK THEY'LL BE JOINED THE LONGER THIS PUSH STAYS.

- MITCH STAND BY I WANT TO HIT THIS LAST TOPIC WE GOT ABOUT 90 SECONDS LEFT ATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF JACKSON HE'S LEADING A BIPARTISAN GROUP OF ATTORNEYS GENERAL TO STUDY ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SAFETY JACKSON SAYS AI POLICIES AREN'T YET SO POLITICALLY POLARIZED SO WORK CAN BE DONE ON THE ISSUE FOR NOW EARLY CONCERNS MITCH ARE OVER AI CREATED CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND HOW THESE CHATBOTS CAN LEAD KIDS TOWARDS SOCIAL ISOLATION UTAH'S ALREADY SUING SNAPCHAT OVER ALLEGATIONS OF KIDS MENTAL HEALTH BEING HURT HOW IT COULD BE USED FOR HUMAN TRAFFICKING AND ILLEGAL DRUG SALES.

VERY QUICKLY THIS DEBATE OVER AI STARTS WITH LET'S PROTECT THE CHILDREN YOU CAN DO ANYTHING IN LEGISLATION PROTECTING THE CHILDREN HOW DOES THE GOVERNMENT KEEP THIS IN LINE REALLY PROTECTING THE KIDS NOT GETTING INTO FREE SPEECH LIKE WE'RE SEEING SOME PEOPLE SAY IN THE UNITED KINGDOM AND EUROPEAN COUNTRIES.

- YEAH IT'S GONNA BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE AI COULD DO A LOT OF GOOD THINGS IT COULD DO A LOT OF BAD THINGS I THINK THE MOST INTERESTING PART OF THIS STORY IS THAT THE PEOPLE INVOLVED RIGHT NOW RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS THE TIME TO DO IT BEFORE IT BECOMES A BIG PARTISAN FIGHT BETWEEN LEFT AND RIGHT - 10 SECONDS FOR EVERYONE I THINK AI IS THIS WORTH GOING THROUGH JEFF JACKSON - I THINK WHEN HE WAS IN CONGRESS HE MENTIONED THAT THE FEELS LIKE THE GOVERNMENT'S ALWAYS BEHIND THE BALL ON THESE THINGS AND THAT AS IT'S BECOMING BIGGER WE NEED TO STAY ON TOP OF IT AND THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE PAYING... - QUICK COMMENTS DAN - YEAH GREAT GOOD TIMING I MEAN YEAH IT IS KIND OF NEW FOR MOST PEOPLE AND IT'S STILL UNDER THE RADAR A LITTLE BIT I MEAN I'VE BEEN USING AI FOR ABOUT A YEAR I USE IT EVERY DAY AS I'M SURE YOU GUYS DO NOW TOO AND IT'S GROWING SO FAST THAT NOW'S THE TIME TO DO IT.

- DANW, FINAL WORD.

- EVERYTHING NEEDS GUARDRAILS - THERE YOU GO WELL THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING US APPRECIATE YOU TUNING IN TO STATE LINES EMAIL YOUR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS TO THE EMAIL ADDRESS STATE LINES AT PBS NC ORG WE'LL CHECK OUT YOUR EMAIL I'M KELLY MCCULLEN THANKS FOR WATCHING AND I'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

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