♪ (heroic music) ♪ ♪ - Hello, and welcome to Comic Culture.

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guest today is in the studio.

It's Giancarlo D'Alessandro.

Giancarlo, welcome to Comic Culture.

- Hey, thank you so much for having me here.

Now, Gian, you and I met-- Giancarlo, pardon me.

You and I met at an interesting, not exactly comic convention.

It was a combination of fine art and zine and indie comic convention held at the North Carolina Museum of Art.

So can you tell us a little bit about Milk and Honey?

Because that's the anthology that you're the curator of and that you were promoting at that event.

- Absolutely, yes.

I just did my seventh issue there.

I really love events of that size.

Really, it's Milk and Honey itself.

It's an anthology, like you had said, that has artists from all over the world, but a lot of regional people as well.

And my main focus is to showcase indie art, individual amateur style, the kind of zines that are printed off of Xerox and hustled at the coffee shops and the art galleries and the mini markets like that.

Because that's pretty much where, especially in this local South Carolina to Virginia sort of markets, with the scene that I guess I kind of grew up in comics was kind of always at that level.

So I think that End Paper, it really was a fantastic example of just how comics are in every, I guess, level of accessibility nowadays.

And I really appreciate that.

- And End Paper was a really interesting event because not only was there this mini comic convention, but it was also an art exhibition.

They were doing postcard art.

So various artists went and presented their art, which is why we went, and then happened to come across some great comic creators.

And the one thing that I'm really struck with is that there was a very vibrant indie comic scene in North Carolina.

And you're from the Wilmington area.

So what's the scene like where you are?

Because I'm familiar with the mainstream conventions, but there's a lot going on that seems really interesting that's just below the surface.

- We're having a lot of competition now with unnatural things like AI, but we have a huge amount of just artists and storytellers in Wilmington.

We have a vibrant film community.

That's how I got my start, learning and drawing story structure and comic structure.

And people, if they break away from that, they'll start doing film or mural art or just a lot of stuff that Wilmington has had to offer.

We have, especially with the climate in the past, a lot of people have done protest art as well.

And like I said, this is all related to comics as any sort of sense of pop art, I guess, is.

But yeah, I think there's a lot of artists there that are now realizing that they can do anything.

So they're starting to write their own stories.

We have a couple of comic book shops that have a really great indie comic section.

And it's a lot of people from not only Wilmington, but all over the state that are just submitting their, like I said, these staple bound zines.

Or now I have a nice perfect press on my book.

But it's at smaller scale that can still reach everyone.

But still, you often see them at these smaller markets, I guess.

Is that what you mean?

- Absolutely.

And I'm thinking of-- I had the opportunity to speak to Christopher Williams from Plastic Flame.

Hard for me to say.

And he's making these great graphic novels that are so-- - Stuff's great.

- So different from what you would see coming from Marvel or DC.

Beautiful artwork.

And again, it's this sort of underground scene here in North Carolina where you have these creators who are putting out some beautiful work.

And the one thing about-- you said this is the perfect bound.

Back in the old days, in the '80s, when Dark Knight Returns came out, this was like, wow, a comic with an actual pressed spine.

This is crazy.

And it's amazing because I'm looking at this book, and it looks like I would see it in a bookstore.

And the fact that it's local creators from this region, from Virginia, from South Carolina, obviously North Carolina, and internationally, as you said, coming together to work with you on this anthology.

So Milk and Honey is-- you said this is the seventh one that you put out.

What's the process like for you to reach out to these creators?

Are they contacting you?

Are you cold calling them?

How do you get the content to put together an anthology?

And how long does it take you to get it to print?

- Longer than it should.

This is definitely a one-man production.

And I wish I could generate it more.

But it literally started as-- I guess now I've been doing it for eight or so years.

It got a little delayed during COVID.

But my first issue was I had literally gone to a comic convention, kind of Heroes Expo, Heroes Con sort of size.

And I was so originally impassioned.

But I got to be a part of this scene.

I had drawn a couple little stuff, real short story comics.

And I threw it together.

And then I literally, at the first issue, I had gathered some of my friends who I had met during this Comic Con sort of thing.

And I just printed all their stuff together.

Hey, you've never been published before.

Give me that five page that you did the other week, and I'll throw it in here.

And then next year, I kind of presented it.

And it was my, hi, I really love your stuff.

Here, have this free book that I made.

And from there, it got a little bit bigger.

One of my friends, Michael Sweater, who had-- oh, I had met the year before.

He had came and offered them to do the cover for the second one.

And then from there, I did a general call out.

I think this is before I'd even started the Instagram.

But it was just like on Facebook.

And I had some people then reach in.

And just every issue, it gets a little bit bigger.

And then I usually find who I want to interview, because I do an interview or two in each issue.

And I try to find someone who does stuff with sequential art as a whole, besides just comics as well.

Like, I think one of my favorite ones is there is a woman who is a beer judge up in Connecticut.

Her little thing in her paper is called Pints and Panels.

And she literally reviews beer in just a little four to six page.

And we talk about that.

It's like, how did you take comics?

And then turn it into something that's beyond your Marvel and your DC, and still, though, translating visually.

And from there, just each issue got a little bit bigger.

I had a friend of a friend that had been like, hey, you're the milk and honey guy.

But I definitely focus on people that are self-publishing, but maybe haven't never had an external publisher before.

And it's like, this is still just being a stage for them.

So that attracts a lot of people.

And then also, I have some returning people.

And I seek out some other stuff.

So luckily, finding the people isn't the hard part.

It's sitting there and putting it all on Photoshop, or I guess InDesign now, and then having it hit the publisher, and advertise it.

And I've tried doing some pre-order stuff.

But really, it's just people see it.

They see a beautiful cover.

They see a variety of work.

And then it kind of sells itself.

- It's fascinating, because you're working with different creators, different careers before comics.

Maybe this is their first book.

Maybe this is something that they do as a hobby.

So after the seventh issue hits the stands, have you heard back from a collaborator who said, hey, thanks to you, I got a call from so-and-so.

And I'm working on this with them, whether it's another comic project for you, or whether it's another comic project with another publisher.

- Absolutely.

I definitely try to use this as a way for indie artists to find more work.

This is part of their resume now, and when they don't have other stuff.

Whether it's something small, like, hey, someone really liked the cover that they saw on Milk and Honey.

Now I'm doing their band poster.

Hey, I got the internship for Cartoon Network, because we did an interview about my desire to move in that direction.

So yeah, I definitely want to be a stepping stone so that artists that I really want to get behind and support are able then to find whatever they want to do, as well as just then get their own work out, too.

- And another thing that you mentioned was the pints and panels, which is just-- it's brilliant, because I say this a lot on the show, that comics is a medium.

It's not a genre.

And I think a lot of people and those watching Comic Culture probably are on the same page as us.

But comics are not just superheroes.

It's not just those glorious four-color heroes fighting crime.

It is just a way to tell stories the same way a television show can be news.

It can be a sitcom.

It can be a medical drama.

So it's a medium for telling stories.

So when you are putting together the anthology, are you looking for a particular slice of that medium?

Like, is it something where you're looking for, I want something biographical for this edition.

Oh, this next time I want it to be more of maybe an alternative sci-fi.

Or are you kind of just saying, I'm going to take whatever you have.

And because it's an anthology, everything tastes good together when you're making a stew.

- I have been asked a lot.

I have not cultivated any themes, which a lot of anthologies do have, for that very reason.

Because especially when I was really started doing it, I asked for older, complete stuff.

Because I didn't want to be chasing someone down for a deadline feeling like they had to do something new.

So I did get a big variety of stuff.

And often, yeah.

Like, I don't want everything to have one direct theme to it.

Like, I do usually have something autobiographical in each issue, and then something sci-fi in there as well.

And I do kind of puzzle piece it together.

And if it's something that doesn't work, or if I have an excess of something, then I will go my way to promote it separately.

I will go out of my way just to celebrate that honorable mention, or I'll stick it in the next issue.

So there's always usually-- if someone brings something, I really want to put it in there, but I don't have room for it, then it still will find a home.

But yes, I don't really have a direct theme for these, just because I want to have that smorgasbord of different stuff.

And I want something where anyone who picks it up is going to find something that they're looking for.

And then they're going to find that artist that has-- because often, especially this scene, they do write the same stuff.

Someone who is saying something from the heart about personal trauma or personal memories isn't doing a high sci-fi stuff afterwards.

But then the high sci-fi person has all their stuff that they usually do.

So I try and find a good mixture of different people in each issue.

- One of the other things I thought was great when we were at End Paper was you were sharing your booth space with another local artist who was doing a comic, as I recall, about what if a waiter at a nighttime diner was a vampire.

- My friend Emily Wigglesworth, she was there with me.

She had just shown up.

She just happened to have her book bag full of stuff.

So I'm like, yeah, come on, just set up for a little bit.

I love that, too, because the relationships-- I have been truly blessed with all the friends that-- in this local scene.

Because as well as End Paper, I often do stuff.

I had just done something the week before with her in Raleigh.

And so it's almost like meeting up with the gang.

There's different people who can only hit certain stuff.

But between Charlotte and Raleigh, and there's a couple shows in Richmond and Charleston.

I host one in Wilmington, North Carolina, as well.

And yeah, it's just the gang almost doing a little local circuit.

And that's a certain special group of friends.

- What I loved about this was that there's no competition.

It's a supportive environment.

And that's what I think is so great about comics in general.

I mean, we always talk about the mainstream books being this assembly line where you've got the writer who gives the script to the penciler, who then passes it off to the inker.

And then there's going to be someone who letters and colors it.

So it's kind of this assembly line process.

But at the same time, it is also deeply personal to that artist.

So you're bringing out these other creators to come with you and share this experience.

And I think that's very giving and speaks to this indie community where everyone seems to be supporting each other.

Although you could contradict me and say there's a lot of fist fights.

- No, no, no.

It is luckily, knock on wood, very drama free.

Because even though there are a lot of people that have certain specialties or certain strengths and weaknesses, a lot of this level of comics is you're doing it all.

And maybe you'll get your friend to help you color.

I have a person, one of my buddies is just really good at setting stuff up for printing.

Because I would say my own personal art, I really have my certain strengths.

But I'm definitely inconsistent on some, especially about the coloring and lettering.

I am barely literate.

I think that's how I even got into comics where I just became such a visual learner as well.

But yes, usually people are making their books from pencil to lettering themselves.

And it's a standalone product.

And yeah, there's no reason to be competitive.

Because they have their style and their color.

And they're in the booth next to you.

It's small enough where you're not fighting for scraps.

Because you have something, a whole different color, a whole different market, I guess, behind it.

And that same person could buy a sticker or a print from you and buy a comic from them.

And it's a good scene all around.

I definitely love it.

- We were speaking about genres and medium and whatnot.

There was a woman that I met once at Heroes Con who created comics about how to print comics.

And it was a comic about the process of going to-- here's how you're going to set the page.

This is what the bleed is.

And this is the registration.

And this is how you're going to get it printed.

And she would work on these very technical comics.

And again, it's not your typical adventure story.

It's literally, how could I be an informational comic?

- That's definitely the root of it.

Zines, it's even beyond just comics as well.

They're informational.

They're educational.

As well as at these booths, there's also someone who has a cookbook, recipes for when you're a broke college student.

The fact that it is so small and cheap to produce makes it really key to be accessible for learning as well as entertainment.

- What's the difference between an indie comic and a zine?

- My definition is when it is usually manufactured with some sort of purpose in mind.

Comics also fit that in a sense.

It's got a purpose to tell a story.

Milk and Honey itself, I would say the purpose of that, even above being entertaining, is to promote smaller artists as well.

These zinesters, this smaller audience, they have-- my books are here to promote a certain issue or to-- I have a certain political or spiritual agenda that I am at least putting that foot forward.

And you notice that in art, too.

I think even as comic people, they pick Superman because of those ideals or they're looking for something like that.

So I think as long as a zine itself over just typical comics is that there's usually some sort of message that is being led forward.

And like I said, that's still debatable.

But that's at least how I view zines a lot.

- That's a great way to look at it because we hear these terms thrown around.

And it's always good to get an idea of what that means to the person who's working in it because it's different from what Wikipedia might have on there.

So I did want to talk a little bit about the technical side.

So this woman is making this comic about printing comics.

How did you sort of figure out all the stuff that you would go from a photocopied, hand-stapled book to something that is, again, this perfect bound edition?

- A lot of trial and error.

Even originally, my first copy of the bleed of that, I had to completely reprint it because I thought I had the bleed.

But then apparently, the margins were-- all the text went a little bit too close to the center.

So it was a little bit of trial and error.

- But I do want to just ask, I mean, again, if we can take a look at me for a moment.

When you're talking about bleed on the page, you're talking about what goes beyond the border here and goes towards the edge of the page.

So if there's too much too far out, we won't be able to see the art.

We won't be able to read the text.

- Yeah.

- So how do you fix that?

I mean, that sounds costly.

- Initially, it was.

But I had-- I guess to answer your question, I initially learned doing some basic design in school.

But it is a lot of-- for the simpler stuff, for this in particular, I had printed it out on my home printer where I had set up the pages before I even sent it to anyone.

Obviously, this is professionally done.

And they triple-checked everything for me.

But I printed off the 100 pages or something.

And then I had to write through it and fold it over.

And I have one of the long-arm staplers.

And that was like, page 57.

I move it six pixels over and try it again.

And so I hate to say it's trial and error for me.

But there's definitely zines.

Books have been people trying to warn others not to make the same mistake.

There's definitely little formatting sheets that now I've just saved on my computer to help me out.

But there is a good general spatial rules that-- especially each book and each book size has their own, like, all right, 3/4 of an inch is here.

And I'm like, is that kind of what you mean?

- This is not your main gig.

This is something you're picking up because you love comics.

- I love comics, yeah.

- Again, there's got to be that steep learning curve where it goes from being the fan to being somebody who can put something together, but then put something together that looks really good.

So over the course of time, how do you sort of track your progression?

Where do you see that point where maybe-- oh, it was issue this that I really figured out how to do that design.

- Yeah.

I distinctly remember issue four.

I had done an interview.

I was much more-- I feel like I enjoyed it a lot more as well.

I had struggled to try and say the right stuff.

What you're doing here with me now, it was-- first starting out, it was a complete, absolute stress headache to me.

But I had figured out different ways to try and format it.

I tried speech to text, sort of live talking.

And then sometimes I just did all this email exchange.

And that was-- because I kind of considered these interviews to be part of the core of each of these books as well, because it's something that I'm also personally contributing to it.

And I think it was doing a lot of more external research on the person and figuring out what exactly I wanted to celebrate about each artist.

That made a big difference just as me going forward with it.

And then sort of formatting itself, yeah, when I originally had had it as just like this half page size and translating over to this larger size, there was a huge learning curve.

Like I said, I had messed up a couple times in issues.

I had to reprint stuff.

And that was a big headache.

But I think it's just learning how to do Photoshop better.

I also now got-- been working on InDesign, although the Adobe suite is getting way too expensive.

I'm not a student anymore.

So I'm going to have to find an alternative application student and relearn the process all over.

So I might be back at square one for issue eight.

- You know, it's fascinating because you talk about how it took you a little while to figure out your voice.

And I've spoken to people about when we do this show here.

We've been doing this since about 2012.

And we've been with PBS since about 2017.

And it took me a while to figure out what exactly I was doing.

And it was one episode in particular where I realized maybe I don't need to be as researched as knowing every single detail.

Maybe I want to learn as I speak to that person.

So when I speak to folks about starting out their own podcast or starting out their own channel or something like, I always say, just be curious.

Just don't be willing to-- don't be afraid, rather, to make mistakes.

You're going to find your voice as you go along.

And that seems to be how you've sort of done that.

- You know, I think that there is definitely a joy in the discovery of it, too.

And like I said, it's-- like you were saying earlier, this isn't necessarily my-- it's definitely my passion.

But it's not like my main gig.

So I think I maybe have a little bit more privilege to be able to experiment and fail.

And I try to make that a real important factor of it.

Because yeah, if you're not having fun, then what's the point of it, right?

And as well as making the books and the product itself, I really just enjoy going to the events.

Like, I had also turned into going to these other smaller zine fests, like ones that are at these art galleries and art museums.

And I really got into that production side.

I host my own called Stone Soup Zine Fest in Wilmington.

Now I've done it for five years now.

And also, a great example of-- it used to be-- first one was 10 tables in a bar.

And now I have like 50 in a big auditorium.

And I really enjoy that bringing people together, that producing, that curating.

I really enjoy that factor, I think, even most of all.

- Again, what I love about comics is the community.

And going to that End Paper festival was so much fun, because I got to see things I don't get to see normally.

And it's that exposure to different voices, different ideas, different styles.

I absolutely love going to Heroes Con every year, because they do such a great job of having the indie aisle, and then the people who spend their own money to set up a booth there, and then those great legends that you grew up reading.

So again, there's this vibrancy in the community.

And you can find it in all these different places.

And it's great when there's somebody who's doing something in their community to sort of bring that out.

And again, just going from when I was in school, if you read comics, you didn't talk about it, because it was too nerdy, and you might get a wedgie in gym class.

Whereas now-- - It's mainstream now.

- It's mainstream, and you're at an art museum, one of the premier art museums in the world as well.

So that's just fascinating.

Now, they were telling me that we have just a few minutes left.

If the folks at home wanted to find out more about you, find out more about Milk and Honey, where can they find you on the web?

- Absolutely.

I'm milkandhoneycomics.com.

I also have Milk and Honey Comics on Instagram.

And usually, it's late July, August.

I invite everyone in the area and beyond to come to Wilmington, North Carolina, where I host Stone Soup Zine Fest, which also-- Stone Soup Zine, Z-I-N-E Fest.

And that's also on Instagram.

And yeah, I have photos of this year's event, which was around August time.

And it's going to be bigger and better.

And I think that's the biggest thing I host.

And so I've got to invite you also.

- I'd be happy to go.

- It'll be a lot of fun.

Well, Giancarlo, thank you so much for coming to Pembroke and speaking with me today.

It's been a fun half hour.

- It's been so fun.

Thank you so much for having me.

- And I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching Comic Culture.

We will see you again soon.

(heroic music) ♪ ♪ - Comic Culture is a production of the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, giving broadcasting majors professional experience and on-screen credit before they graduate.

♪