- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, for 40 years, Black Issues Forum has chronicled the stories that matter most to North Carolina's black communities.

We look back at one of the program's most enduring commitments, historically black colleges and universities.

From culture, tradition, and community impact, we reflect on the journey.

Coming up next, stay with us.

- Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

(upbeat music) ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm your host, Kenia Thompson.

Well, this has been a season to remember as Black Issues Forum winds up our 40th anniversary season.

We wanted to dedicate a few episodes to reflect on this momentous journey through the black experience in North Carolina and survey where we've traveled, where we've landed, and what we see on the road ahead.

At its inception, Black Issues Forum has been committed to elevating HBCU stories.

Today, we'll take a look back at some of our memorable programs and talk about why and how these institutions have been a cornerstone of our coverage.

Joining me now to go down this journey of memory lane is none other than executive producer, Deborah Holt-Noel.

Welcome.

- Thank you.

Excited to be here again.

- Always a pleasure to have you on.

You know, when you think back, you've been involved with the show for a while and you think back about your time and think about political issues, HBCUs has been a regular part of our programming.

Why has that been?

- HBCUs, Historically Black Colleges and Universities, have been a pivotal part of our transition through slavery and into economic independence.

Many of our community individuals who are in the middle class came up through HBCUs.

And really it's because of these institutions that our community has been able to progress so rapidly.

It's because of that higher education and that commitment to higher education and all of the things that an HBCU environment helped to cultivate within individuals.

That shaped the community that still exists today.

And I was brought up in it, my parents were brought up in it, and it continues to have an impact on the black community.

- I found a clip where you reflected a little bit on your experience and the importance of it.

And I want you to take a look.

So take a look at this.

- I can speak from experience that when I went to, in fact, I attended two HBCUs, although I graduated from St.

Augustine's College.

I also attended Howard University and I had come from a predominantly white school situation and gone to the HBCUs.

And I'd say personally that it was very valuable to me to see, like people to know that the place where I was learning, I was being evaluated based on my abilities only.

And that race really wasn't a factor.

So I definitely think that they have a place.

I'm a supporter of HBCUs.

But I also believe that other universities and colleges, predominantly white, have something to offer students of various cultures and ethnic groups as well, especially as they become more diverse.

And that has been an emphasis that's been expressed by the leadership of some of the North Carolina schools this season.

And we've discovered that in our town hall series.

So there's definitely something offered by those schools as well.

(laughing) - You look exactly the same.

So let's just start there.

Okay, let's start there.

Do you remember that?

- I do remember that.

I was seated with Jay Holloway and Dr.

Dudley Flood, and we were talking about the Vision series.

They were interviewing people who had appeared in this series and the documentary I produced, Exhausted Remedies, was featured in that.

And I do remember that.

- Yeah, and your language has never changed about the importance and the impact of HBCUs on your life.

Like you mentioned before the clip, your father, it's inbreded.

And so when you look back at that objective of having that conversation on that show, on that episode, on Black Issues Forum, what was, I guess, the impetus of saying, we need to have these talks?

- I'll just admit that from time to time, we'll get that phone call, we'll get that letter from someone who does not understand why we have a Black Issues Forum.

They don't understand why we have White Issues Forum.

And they also don't understand why we have these schools that are predominantly black.

What they don't understand is that they are historically black institutions and they were made that way by the situation and the circumstances that undergird this country, which was segregation and racist segregation.

The schools were developed for black students because white institutions would not accept them.

HBCUs have always had their doors open to all students of all races, of all ethnicities.

And it was important for us to remind audiences once again, that these institutions are important, they matter, they continue to have an enduring impact and importance on our community, not only as black people, but on the statewide and nationwide community.

- Yeah, and what I love to your point, and we just saw in some of the B-roll that rolled, it is not just black people, right?

It's a community thing.

It's not a color thing.

Unfortunately, we had to create spaces for ourselves, because of the fabric of our history here, but it's always been inclusive.

If you can think back, what were some of your favorite HBCU stories along the way?

- Some of my favorites were going to North Carolina A&T State University and covering their marching band director, I believe his name was Dr.

Johnny Hodge.

And at the time he was an award-winning director and I wanted to make sure that we profiled him.

And so we attended a game, we got on the field and my videographer was like, what in the world?

Because they were out there doing the little, you know, the dance, and he was like, they're like rabbits.

So anyway, it was just going, but that was exposure for him too.

I also greatly enjoyed a screening event at Winston-Salem State University when Stanley Nelson's Black Panther movie came out.

And it was wonderful to just sense the excitement of the professors and the students about learning about this history, that was exciting too.

- And in 2019, Black Issues Forum convened a production focused on HBCUs, right?

And so tell us a little bit about what led up to that decision, to that event and what was involved.

- Well, that was around 2018, as I recall.

And the UNCF had come out with a report.

It was the economic impact of HBCUs on our country and it was a significant impact.

Following that, Stanley Nelson came out with a documentary called "Tell Them We Are Rising" and that was a profile of the history of historically black colleges and university and it was incredible.

So for the first time, I would say, HBCUs were given a very bright and dynamic light to the public.

And it was just a really incredible documentary.

We wanted to pick up on that momentum by inviting HBCU presidents to PBS North Carolina, which was UNC-TV at the time, for a round table.

And we got just about all of them around the table for one conversation to talk about the importance of HBCUs.

It was just very, very special.

- That is special.

And I think that they recognized too, the importance that this show has had on the community, right, to take the time to come here and to have the conversations, I think says a lot about the respect that this show has had over these 40 seasons too.

In my time, so that kind of takes us kind of closer to when you brought me on board.

- That's right.

- So I went to a PWI, a predominantly white institution, had an amazing time, okay?

I was minority, but had an amazing time, would never take it back.

But I always did wonder, what was it like to go to an HBCU?

I had Shaw down the street from me, St.

Aug down the street, right?

A&T around the corner, Central around the corner.

And I had friends that was on the yard and would invite me and I was like, this is so cool.

So when it got time for me to feature an HBCU, I believe it was when we partnered up with Maryland Public Television.

- That's right, on the HBCU Weekdow Project.

- Exactly.

- It was our very first collaboration.

- Very first collaboration.

And I got to go to the Aggie Eagle Classic.

- You were so excited.

- Oh my God, I was so excited.

I was so excited.

And it was, I mean, I remember being on the fields during when the football team was running in, seeing the cookouts, seeing the people in their paraphernalia seeing the, just everything.

- The fish fry.

- I felt like I was at home.

- Didn't it feel like a homecoming?

- Yeah, I didn't even go there.

I don't know nobody, but it felt like a homecoming.

- But something about it was inviting, was warm.

You felt like you belong.

- Indeed, and one of my favorite stories from that time is a story of Mr.

and Mrs.

Fry, Judge Fry.

And I just wanted to share that clip because they hold such a special place in my heart and it's just such a beautiful story, so take a look.

- Henry came in 1949, I came in 1950.

African-Americans couldn't go to hotels and that thing.

So Betty Cappacott had a party at the Magnolia.

I was here in Greensboro.

And I looked over at the table and there was Henry playing cards with someone, having a great time drinking a Coke.

And I said, "Wouldn't it be nice to have come with somebody like that?"

♪ It feels like I'm at home ♪ - How's that?

- Well, A&T and North Carolina Central were and still are, what would you call it?

- Competitors.

- We are competitors.

- I'm just pleased to know that the tradition with the Aggie-Eagle Classic is continuing and I hope it continues forever.

- Woo!

How's that?

That one for the ages.

(laughing) - Your memory was better today than usual, I'm pleased.

- Ooh, I didn't know that.

- It was.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You want another interview?

- Oh, that's so sweet.

- Oh my goodness.

- They're sweet.

Judge Fry has been amazing.

He's been on the show before.

And that story of the love that comes even in the midst of a rivalry is familiar.

My grandparents met, my grandfather attended St.

Aug and my grandmother was at Shaw University.

My parents' dad was at St.

Aug, my mother was at North Carolina Central.

So rivalries, but underneath the rivalry, it's an opportunity to meet somebody and build a connection.

- Yeah, and that was the theme of that project, essentially, there's, yeah, it's a rivalry, but it's all love at the end of the day.

And I think one of the objectives with that project was to show and maybe kind of change the perspectives of what people may have had about HBCUs and that, 'cause I think that's what we play up, right, is that rivalry, but there's so much love.

And I think sometimes that gets missed or unseen in our black communities by others.

- It can be overshadowed also by attention to the culture.

The culture is very much a part of the environment at an HBCU.

Like you said, it's the cookouts, but there's also the academia, I mean, and the commitment to improve oneself, to come out a scholar.

And like you said, and like we saw, these are schools that they're people who come together.

And even though we're rivals, we love each other.

- We do definitely love each other.

And I think that diversity has been consistently highlighted throughout everything we've seen and being able to academically prepare our students for diverse programs outside of the black community that's been created yet at HBCU, I think is often overlooked as well.

- Yeah, and I think that there's this assumption, it's unfair, it's not right, and it's telling about who has this assumption that just because it is African-American, it is substandard or it's not as good as, and we have to lose that.

What matters is that, I won't say it like that, they are excellent institutions.

They're places where excellence is promoted.

And when all you're doing is competing on the basis of your abilities and you don't have to struggle with the other pressures of society that are tied to racism and feelings of not belonging because you're different, all that's gone.

And now it's about you and did you accomplish this thing?

And a lot of times students who come from HBCUs, because of that stronger sense of self and also the academic preparation, they compete better when they get onto the world stage.

- I think I'd agree.

Again, not taking away from my college experience because it was a great one, but I will have to say that there was a lack of identity for me in my journey and that didn't happen for me till I went to Africa.

And so that's kind of a similar replica of an HBCU here.

- Of a coming home.

- Yes, yes.

So I think there's something to be said about tapping back into who we are so that we can be who we need to be and who we're meant to be.

- It's the value of affinity.

It's okay and it's necessary in some cases to go back to your affinity group, whether that's women, whether that's African-Americans, whether that's, it can be a religious group, but it's familiarity and you don't have to explain certain things when you get within that community.

And sometimes that affinity group can indeed be found within other societies and communities.

For example, when you're at a PWI, like a North Carolina State or Duke, they have African-American cultural centers.

And those are value, they're places, they're safe spaces for students to come and they're not exclusive to black students either.

But it's a safe space and also it's educating the surrounding community as well.

And they do an excellent job of that.

- I think so.

Another school that, and to be fair, so North Carolina has the most HBCUs.

- For sure.

- Yes.

11?

- 11 if you count Barber-Scotia and all of the others, yes.

- And so we aren't naming all of them.

So I don't want anyone to feel like they've been left out.

But I think we've-- - Don't make me name them all, but I will.

- Name them all.

- Are you serious?

(laughing) - You did it already.

- NCCU.

- All right.

- NCCU, Winston-Salem State, North Carolina A&T, Shaw University, Livingstone, Bennett College, Fayetteville State University, Johnson C. Smith University.

- Yes.

- Who am I forgetting?

- Who are you forgetting?

You said ECA.

- Did I say Shaw?

Oh, Elizabeth City State University.

And-- - I don't think you said Shaw.

- Did I say Shaw?

- I don't think you did.

- Okay, so definitely Shaw University.

- And then I think we're missing somebody more.

- It's okay, we love you still.

Should have written it down.

I put you on the spot too.

- Yes, you did, that wasn't right.

- You are a HBCU queen.

I put you on the spot.

Well, one of the schools I want to talk about next is I went to Elizabeth City State University.

So that was a school, honestly, I'd heard of, but didn't hear much hype about until recent times when their aviation program took flight.

So I want to take a look at this clip with Chancellor, with the Chancellor there at the time, and then we'll talk about it.

So let's take a look.

- I knew the best strategy to get the word out to control the narrative about ECSU and talk about our signature program was through social media and so we really leveraged social media a lot to tell our story, to make everyone know here in North Carolina and beyond that ECSU has a strong, unique program and partnerships with the aviation industry, the airlines.

I wanted those partnerships very early on.

It took us a couple of years to get them, but now we have partnerships with Delta Airlines, United, American, JetBlue, and we're just really excited to have these partnerships now.

So when people started to learn about the jewel right here in Northeastern North Carolina, I talk about the 28 additional academic programs we have.

We have a strong business program, a strong criminal justice, pharmaceutical science, biology, and this year, our incoming class, we have aviation science as our number one degree program for our freshman students.

And another big point of pride is that 52% of those freshmen are male.

- So Chancellor Dixon did an amazing job during her time there.

She's over at North Carolina Central University now.

- Yes, she's the president there now.

- Yes, but I was amazed at that program and not just that program.

They have plenty, like she said, plenty of other valuable programs that are producing talents that is unmatched.

But to see an HBCU leading way in a space that we have not had representation in aviation is remarkable.

- Absolutely.

It's a strong program, and because of that program, they've been able to increase the diversity of their student body.

They also, with that program, and we wanted to highlight this in our coverage of HBCUs and the special, unique programs that they provide that people may not be aware of, that program helped to bring attention to the school and help increase their enrollment.

And one of the other things that we had wanted to highlight at the time, and this had come up at the time as well, was the NC Promise Program that allowed some schools, not just HBCUs within the UNC system, to offer a very, very low tuition in order that they could increase their numbers.

And Dr.

Dixon really turned things around at Elizabeth City State University.

I know she's making an impact at NCCU.

And other schools that were a part of NC Promise also strengthened their programs as well.

And we just wanted to bring attention to that and let folks know, if you're planning to attend a school, consider one of these institutions, Winston-Salem State University's nursing program, North Carolina A&T State University.

People very much know about their strong engineering program.

We were at Fayetteville State University.

They had a strong program in technology and computer and information systems.

- Central's law program, one of the top in the country.

- Yes, one of the top ones.

- Indeed.

- And when we went to Fayetteville State, I'm sorry, Winston-Salem State University, we did yet another feature featuring fashion.

- That's right.

- I know, I don't know how I forgot about that one.

- And the sports program.

- And the sports program with Rajah Caruth.

- Yes.

- Yeah, he's a race car driver.

He is making waves for himself.

I think he's competed in NASCAR, but don't quote me on that one.

I think he's a truck, yeah, he does the trucks, but young guy who is already just-- - Just doing this coverage helps to meet our mission as Black Issues Forum and as a producer, executive producer, it's allowed us also to tell those positive stories and shine that light on something strong that's emanating from the black community.

And that's been really valuable to me personally and certainly to the show.

- What role do you think the show has played and should play as well as HBCUs in preserving and advancing black culture?

- I think that media organizations in general have an opportunity to tell untold stories.

And the story of HBCUs has been told in different ways.

One thing I haven't seen a lot of is the dramatization of HBCU stories.

Back when we did the HBCU round table with the presidents, another documentary had also surfaced and that was "Shaw Rising," an excellent documentary about the founding of Mother Shaw, which is a university from which other HBCUs grew in different ways.

It birthed other schools.

But that was a wonderful documentary that shared the story of that institution.

They're documentaries and they have their place, their role, and their value, but so do dramas.

So, I mean, it's sort of my dream to see some of these dramas out here in the same way that you see Masterpiece Theater.

You wanna tell me that there weren't some fun stories coming from your schools.

- Oh, I'm sure.

-I'm sure there were.

And I think in telling those stories, 'cause I pretty much grew up in the Raleigh area, but understanding the importance and significance of the land and the area that you grow up in is very important.

And I think here in North Carolina, we're just so rich with that history.

- That's right.

- That it's important.

We know it lives in our backyard, that it has shaped our perspectives and who we are and how we live.

And so I'm fortunate to be part of this storytelling vehicle that is Black Issues Forum to be able to showcase those things.

- Well, I think the good news for filmmakers, storytellers, is all of the stories have not been thoroughly told.

And so there's a lot-- - There's plenty more.

- There's plenty more to pull from.

- Indeed.

Thank you, my friend.

- Thank you.

- We'll be talking some more.

So I wanna thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we do invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

We are going to continue sharing highlights from this remarkable 40-season run of coverage on Black Issues Forum.

So make sure you tune in and check us out.

I'm Kenia Thompson, and I am grateful to have you.

See you next time.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.