- Good evening.

Thank you so much for joining us for that preview of Ten to Try: Trails and for three minutes of me speaking to no one.

I'm James Mieczkowski.

I am the executive producer of this piece and I had the privilege to work on it as well.

And I'm the content development producer here at PBS North Carolina, your statewide public media network, and one of the nation's largest PBS affiliates.

We are proud to bring you content like this that highlights our beautiful state and connects us to our roots as North Carolinians, as Southerners, and as Americans.

And as content development producer, it is my job and my passion, develop and tell stories and shepherd them through this process, bringing them to you, our event attendees, our statewide audience, and our neighbors and folks across the country.

It is my absolute honor to bring you this new special and to welcome the storytellers and the outdoor enthusiasts featured in Ten to Try: Trails.

This program is part of North Carolina's yearlong celebration of the Year of the Trail, which we are so, so excited to be a part of.

And with that, I would like to welcome our very special guests this evening, our panel.

I'll start with Matt Chenet.

So Matt Chenet is our series producer.

We approached Matt with the not so simple task of finding our featured characters, researching our trails, and developing the storyline that connects all of these beautiful people and places together.

Through Matt's curiosity, we were able to go on this adventure we called Ten to Try: Trails.

Thank you, Matt.

We also have Jeremiah McLamb.

Jeremiah is the director and producer of Tend to Try, and if you couldn't tell from his beautifully flipped background, he is, he has, he and his production company JerFilm trucked all across our state to film and edit this piece, which is just visually breathtaking.

His vision and skill are one of a kind, and I cannot imagine what those hiking boots must have gone through over the last two months while filming this episode.

We're also joined by Vivianette Ortiz.

Vivianette and her friends started Latinos Aventureros in Las Carolinas in 2021 for Latinx hikers in Gaston County.

And the organization has now grown to include over 1,700 members and 14 leaders across the state.

They held 98 events last year to help get, to help connect Latinx community members to the North Carolina nature and plan to have even more events this year.

She was in front of that beautiful waterfall striking a pose, which was just incredible.

And then we have Randy Johnson.

Randy is a hiker, preservationist and has written a few books, one of which is called "Hiking North Carolina".

So he's literally written the book on hiking in North Carolina.

He's also on the Mountains-to-Sea board, Mountains-to-Sea Trail board of directors.

And that Mountains-to-Sea Trail was created about, was created over 50 years ago and is a large part of why we have the Year of the Trail today.

So thank you all for being here, and I'd like to start at the very beginning of this project with our production team.

Jeremiah and Matt, I just wanna make sure that you all can hear me.

- Gotcha loud and clear.

- Loud and clear.

Yeah, sounds good.

- Great.

Awesome.

I appreciate that.

Again, sorry everybody out there in the audience about that, but to kind of kick off this conversation, I'd really like for us to kind of start at the very beginning and when I approached you two about this concept and this show, I kind of asked us this ambiguous question, which was, "Why are trails important to us?"

And I think maybe we can kind of start with talking about, how are we able to do that?

How do you all think that we were able to do that within this piece?

How were we able to maybe address that question and in what ways were we able to articulate it?

- I'll jump in and start.

I think for me it was finding the people across North Carolina, the North Carolinians, who are out on these trails every day.

You know, using them, enjoying them, discovering something about the trail, about nature, about themselves in these places.

And really, you know, trying to capture the diversity of North Carolinians that are out on these trails, experiencing the trails, and letting them sort of lead the way for us and speak to, you know, what they're loving about the trails, what they're enjoying about the trails, letting that sort of guide the story in a way.

So not only were were we looking for a diversity of location, diversity of trail, but like for diversity of character and the real stories and the real voices of the people that are out there experiencing it.

And so for me, I think it was less about us saying, "No, this is the trail, we gotta do this one," and really just kind of taking the pulse of the people out there, you know, as well as trying to get a nice diversity of trail location and in character.

- I think for me, being out in the field, you know, North Carolina is so beautiful from the mountains to the sea, so it's easy to set up a camera and get some great shots, but for me, I really wanted to give people an opportunity to experience that trail through the visuals.

So that was very important to me to figure out what's the best way to tell that story visually, to get everybody a taste of what it's like to be out there.

I mean, there's no replacement for getting out on your feet and hitting the trails, but I wanted to get you as close as possible.

So for me, it was finding that story through visuals, and connecting people and showing the diversity that we have in North Carolina, which is spectacular.

And for me, before this, I was not a trails person.

You wouldn't find me hiking on the weekend, but this has really kind of changed my perspective and it just, it blew my mind the diversity that we have here in North Carolina.

It is just such a beautiful place.

- Yeah, right.

It feels like when you, when you're able to do that, and Jeremiah, I'm sure you and Matt could speak to this in such a larger way, but we're able to kind of connect a little bit differently and when we get outside and we're on a trail somewhere, I feel like it speaks a little bit to who we are as people, right?

I think we showed that, right?

With our characters like with Heber on the river or you know, Paula, you know, and the estuary to our other guests that we have here today, Vivianette and Randy, it seems like, you know, the trail kinda speaks to us in different ways and finding things about ourselves.

- Absolutely.

Speaking of Heber, I feel like, you know, the river is Heber and Heber is the river, you know, it's made him who he is and he's helped craft it as well, craft the river as well, growing it and making it into this incredible paddle trail that it is today.

So I think that's true of everyone that we've highlighted over the course of this episode.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, and I think Jeremiah and his team, JerFilm did such a great job of what you just said, Jeremiah capturing the beauty and letting that speak and then really capturing the essence of the character as well and letting us kind of like, we're trying to get a lot of information into a short period of time for each trail, but it's still just watching it now and watching it all together, it still felt like it had it, you know, it had breath and you felt like you were with the character and I really felt you got a sense of everybody and I mean, that's a testament to just how beautifully it was shot and put together.

- And I can't say enough too for, you know, the ones that went out there with us, from Vivianette and Randy and the others, I mean, they were so amazing, so wonderful to work with and just really gave a lot of themselves to one, produce the show, but then also just kind of share from their heart their experiences out on the trails and life experiences as well.

It's, it was a real pleasure working with all of them.

- Yeah, and one question I wanted to ask you, Matt, is, you know, there's 179 trails in North Carolina and we had to narrow it down to 10.

Let's talk a little bit about that, because that was really tough.

- Wait, 179 what trails, like hiking?

I mean, there's thousands of trails, right, in North Carolina.

- Right.

- Yeah.

I mean, yeah, so yeah, I mean it was like, you take all the foot trails, all the paddle trails, all the kayak, all the, you know, [indistinct] trails and yeah, where do we start and how do we dig into that?

And I think that's what I was saying is kind of letting the characters and the people kind of show the way.

But, you know, also we knew we wanted to cover the whole state, right?

There's literally trails, you know, obviously in every county, in every town, you know, in North Carolina of some kind.

So, where do we start?

I think what we also wanna balance of just the epic, you know, the extraordinary trails and I think we have some of that with the, with DuPont Forest and Hooker Falls and the Three Waterfalls Trail and Grandfather Mountain, of course.

I mean so many of them are really unique and really special.

But I think, yeah, it's like the accessibility was a huge thing from the beginning and that came from you, James, to Heather and Laura and the team at PBS and really wanting to, like, showcase accessibility of the trail and the diversity of people.

And so it was like this big matrix we had, you know, like where do we start and how, where do we slot things in?

But I just, watching it all together as one piece, it really feels like it's a nice balance and I think people get a sense of just all the different kind of trail opportunities out there.

Everybody really spoke, each piece spoke to how accessible these trails were, you know, each one we picked, whether it was a horse trail or a bike trail or a kayak trail, they were all accessible in ways and that was important to us.

And I think the characters speak to that too with just like the, all the different people coming at it from different backgrounds, different perspectives, and I think, yeah, it was, just felt like a nice mix.

[no audio] - Can you all hear me?

- There you are.

- Yeah, sorry, I keep on being muted, unmuted, anyway.

Jeremiah, I wanted to ask you a question.

So it's so much fun to watch everything that you shoot and within this piece, you know, we were talking the other day with Matt as well.

It's just, there's so much incredible nature footage that you have in here and it feels like there's something, some sort of patience.

How do you get those, that shot?

There are times where I was out loud saying, "Holy smokes, like, how did you do that?"

- You know, the key word is patience.

And, I don't want, for example, Heber again is another great example, or Randy.

I mean, these guys, like I said, they know their stuff and so they put us in the right place at the right time.

And then we just had the patience to kind of sit and wait and they gave us clues to look for and then nature just kind of gave it, gave us some incredible beautiful stuff.

We saw some incredible wildlife out there.

And for example, catching that little bit of dolphin footage that we got, that was, I think we spent a few hours just doing that, just trying to catch a tail.

But yeah, it's a game of patience and being in the right place at the right time.

- Gosh, that's, yeah, you must have a lot of it and I'm sure, yeah, I can't imagine being in the river like that and waiting for a river otter to pop up and just getting it.

So glad you did.

- And some of that was probably just pure luck, so.

[pair laughing] - Well, I'm glad that you're lucky.

- And I wanted to say, it's patience, but it's extraordinary, because it's, this isn't a BBC, you know, like worldwide production where we're out, Jeremiah's out there for three weeks on one location.

It's, you know, it's kind of turn and burn.

It's, he's there for a couple days really trying to capture it, but like, you know, and so just to do that and to get all that beautiful footage, it's quite a feat.

It was cool to see.

- Thanks, Matt.

And like I said, I gotta say it again though, it really was the incredible guides that we had at each location.

They knew where to take us, they put us in the right places at the right time.

They gave us the cues to look for.

And so I've gotta sing their praises.

They really made, they were very critical to us capturing what we captured.

- Well, great.

And I know that within those shoots, you were able to be with some incredible people.

Some of those people were our featured hiking enthusiasts and hiking guests.

And I'd like to kind of segue a little bit into that.

So if we can, I'd like to ask Vivianette a question or two.

Hello, Vivianette, how are you?

- I am doing well, thank you.

How are you today?

- I'm doing great, thanks for joining us and being here and being a part of this project.

And I will say, you know, within all of these pieces, I mean there's so many great soundbites, there's so many great stories we're able to connect to, but you said something in the piece that I think really kind of like encapsulated what we were trying to do with this project.

And, you say in the piece, you know, nature welcomes everyone.

Do you think you can maybe speak a little bit more about that to us?

- Yeah, most definitely.

So I am from Puerto Rico and I have been living here in North Carolina for about 18 years now.

And it wasn't until COVID that I decided to start exploring the Carolinas.

I met up with a friend that is also a Latina explorer, her name is Sandra Aguirre.

And we came together and started exploring different trails, which North Carolina has amazing trails, beautiful trails here.

And we noticed that we didn't find lots of diversity in the trails, and we wondered, "What do we need to do in order to get our community, specifically Latino community, to feel welcome outside, right?

What can we do?"

If the trails are accessible and it's right there, and it took me 15 years to figure out that, you know, I could go walking on this trail, then what can we do to help the community venture outdoors?

And so we created Latinos Aventureros, and nature definitely is for everyone.

It welcomes everyone.

And it's a place where you can find peace.

Trails here in North Carolina, you can find community.

So it's been a blessing and a gift to be able to discover, discover these trails here in North Carolina.

- Yeah, and in what ways do you feel like it's been, you've been blessed by that, by being a part of it, by being able to engage with your community out there?

In what ways has that happened for you?

Beyond just, you know, this group you've been able to set up and been able to grow?

- Yeah, so I think once you start venturing in the trails, you create like a family.

It's like, there's these different groups in Facebook where you follow like North Carolina Waterfalls and everybody, all enthusiasts are posting pictures of the different trails that they've ventured to.

And it's really interesting when you're on a trail, you've never met this, someone in person, it's all virtual, and they're like, "Hey, I know you.

I saw that you belong to Latinos Aventureros," or, "I see that you adventure through the trails."

Just recently I was at Rough Ridge and I crossed paths with someone that just started talking to me as if we had known each other forever.

I feel like North Carolina, the outdoor scenery is very much like a big friends group.

People just meet and know each other and communicate, and it's like a big family.

- That's great.

And I'm glad that you're able to have that and access that, you know, and some people don't have that.

And so I think that's kind of the point of your work and your group is to make sure that people who want it can try and get it.

So thank you so much for that.

One thing I wanted to ask you, again, I kind of mentioned it earlier, gosh, what was it like being in front of that waterfall like that?

[laughs] - It is magical.

I mean that waterfall, the whole place is just wonderful.

It's great for you to take your entire family there and then you can make it as easy or as hard as you want too.

So going down to the base of High Falls is really exhilarating.

And then the mist, once you're down at the bottom of the falls, you feel that mist hitting you.

It's very relaxing.

It's a wonderful place to visit.

I hope that everyone has the chance to visit DuPont Forest, the three falls, each one has like its unique thing going on, right?

So it's really cool.

- That's great.

Yeah.

One question we had from the audience, and I'd like to go ahead and ask you, there's a question about parking.

Is it easy to find parking at all these trails?

Randy, would you maybe wanna jump in on that?

You are the hiking expert.

You wrote the book on this, for our people who are trying to drive out there and park somewhere, where do we go?

Can we do it?

- Well, hopefully we go extremely close to home.

I mean, I was speaking recently with Reid Wilson, who's the secretary of the North Carolina Department of Cultural and Historical Resources, and he had a great quote.

He said, "The goal of the Year of the Trail is to put a great hiking destination within 10 minutes of everybody in North Carolina."

So, I mean, this is what the added funding and other things are supposed to do is give everybody the choice of where to go close to home.

Now, of course, close to home, if it's a really busy area, you know, there are places and times, and I think DuPont is one of those where, you know, parking can be a little challenging on a weekend.

But one of the things I did in my book, "Hiking North Carolina", and what I've stressed during the pandemic is try to find alternative places, alternative places to park that let you access busy trails and spectacular locations without parking at the most popular place to park.

You wanna go to a popular destination out in the back country.

You don't necessarily wanna start with everybody else.

So, you know, look at trail guides that describe things with alternative starting points.

Look at maps, you know, and find ways to sneak into these popular places on those weekends when it's a little busy.

[no audio] - I guess I'm still muted.

Okay, can you all hear me?

Randy, beyond just the parking, it seems like, you know, the journey is a destination, right?

So when you get there, it's really about how you experience that too.

And I'm a little curious, you know, we are known as the Great Trails State, but in your opinion, Randy, why do you think that North Carolina is the Great Trails State?

- Well, you know, it's really funny.

When the Great Trails State Project started, I kind of went, "Hmm, I've heard that before."

And you know, my book, "Hiking North Carolina", it's going into its 30th year, its fourth edition, and from the very first edition, the introduction of that book called "North Carolina, The Great Trails State".

And it's easy to see why.

I mean, the Mountains-to-Sea Trail is a great example.

There are places all across that trail from the mountains to the coast, and that's what North Carolina really is.

It is an amazing geographical trajectory of natural environments.

And boy, that leaves a lot of leeway for, you know, just a diversity of destinations that, you know, many, many states don't have.

I mean, think about it.

From the northwestern part of North Carolina where it's almost alpine, where the High Mountains get more snow than Buffalo, New York, all the way to the far southeastern part of the state.

It's subtropical.

It's like Florida.

That is a Mountains-to-Sea spectrum of geography and geology and climate that is, you can't argue about it.

It's just special, special on a national level.

- Yeah, that's great.

There is a, it's so much, there's so much ecological diversity that you could go anywhere and find something for you, right?

That's, again, something we tried to articulate in this piece.

So thank you for speaking to that.

And you know, one thing, another thing I wanted to ask you as well is, you know, you were a steward of Grandfather Mountain for so long and, you know, I just kind of wanted to know, and maybe some of our viewers were thinking too, it's just how, like, what is important that we remember really about our natural spaces and about taking care of them and why that's important?

- You know, I was thinking about something that Jeremiah said.

He indicated, let me look at his quote.

He said that, he said that the river made one of our host hikers, Heber, made him who he is.

And, you know, I think nature can help make us all not necessarily who we are, but who we are going to become.

And that is a lifelong learning process.

And for me personally, I mean, I was working on the Mountains-to-Sea Trail back in the 1980s on Grandfather Mountain when I started the wilderness trail program there.

And not only have I gotten slower, but my experiences have gotten more and more deeper and richer over that length of time.

And when you track the course of your life through the natural environment that you love, I mean, it just, it opens up, it opens up life to you as far as I'm concerned.

It's, you know, we are all passing through this plane, and when you're passing through the beauty of nature at the same time, you're doing it the right way.

- Yeah, that's great.

And I'd love to hear that too.

And thank you, Randy, for that.

And one thing, one question I kind of wanted to ask you, and I kind of asked this to Vivianette earlier.

So within your piece, I will say, Randy, you were scaling up that ladder, man, and I don't know if I could do that.

I wonder if some people at home were thinking that too.

How do you find just the courage to kind of do stuff like that and what keeps you going out there?

- Well, I think it's important to remember what I said in that piece, and that was, "You don't have to start with the highest mountain."

I mean, all these trails around North Carolina, they get you outdoors, they get you familiar, they get you in better physical shape.

But for me personally, the alpine grandeur of the High Mountains has always been most important to me.

And Grandfather Mountain epitomizes that.

I mean, you saw those views from Calloway Peak, that drop-off all, that Jeremiah filmed so well, that drops way off to the Piedmont.

That's 5,000 vertical feet, basically.

That's much more like the Rocky Mountains than it is the Appalachian Mountains.

So we've got Rocky Mountain grandeur right here in North Carolina.

And the way I like to experience it, that is climbing up a ladder on a cliff.

I mean, that really is what impresses me.

And you can get there, you know, the ladders are tricky, but you know, that hike on Grandfather is one of the top adventure hikes, I think in Eastern America.

So that's where I go, but you can get there if you want to.

- Yeah, that's great.

One question I kinda wanna ask to the entire group here, and maybe Vivianette, maybe you can start us off here and go from there, but how have you seen these trails evolve over time, you know, and where do you think we're going next?

- I think over time, I would say that I do feel like trails are more diverse.

Like people are discovering trails.

Year of the Trail has really helped highlight the many trails that we have here in North Carolina.

It's becoming like the popular thing to do.

So I do see that they are becoming more diverse.

I do feel that we still have work to do.

And so where I see us headed is having trails for everyone, having trails where everyone feels welcome, organizations and groups working towards that for people to feel welcome on the trails, for people to have the knowledge or learn about trails here in North Carolina, for everyone to have an understanding that nature welcomes everyone.

There's a trail for everyone and you can start anywhere.

It doesn't have to be a super hard trail.

You can start at the easiest trail that's close by.

So I foresee it being where everyone just goes outside and explores and enjoys nature.

- I can say from my perspective, like I said, I haven't done trails before this year.

This was a new experience for me, but my experience with everyone that I met, you know, the history of North Carolina state parks and trails is relatively young, you know, and speaking to the whole world.

And so I see a large amount of individuals working hard to create opportunities to create more trails.

You know, the Paddle Trail with Heber is relatively new, that was established not too long ago, a few years ago.

And Randy's incredible work, but Grandfather Mountain just, you know, back in the 80s and it's a growing place.

There's a huge community that is willing to put in the time and effort, most of it volunteer, to create these incredible trails and to give people like myself an opportunity to experience something new, to explore, to get out in nature.

So I think the future's bright, like Vivianette said, the popularity is growing, the popularity of getting outside is growing, which is great, and I'm excited to see where that goes.

And the thousands of trails that Matt mentioned, I'd like to see thousands more added.

- Yeah.

- May I jump in as well?

You know, there are volunteers out there building these trails, so let me direct your attention to that, for instance.

The Year of the Trail isn't about just going out and hiking.

Consider getting involved with your local communities with like a Mountains-to-Sea Trail, for instance.

You know, I'm on the board with that organization, and we really pointedly try to reach out and invite North Carolinians of all ethnic groups and localities to get on the Mountains-to-Sea Trail.

The way to make that invitation real is to step out on the trail with a tool in your hands and help open these trails.

I encourage anybody listening here to just go volunteer.

- Yeah.

And I think storytelling helps a lot too.

I think just build awareness and, you know, the work that Vivianette and her group is doing to talk about diversity on trails, the work that Randy's doing to tell people about these different trails.

And also I think that's where PBS and local television, you know, not to put in a plug for PBS, but yeah, it's like we can tell these like really localized stories, they can highlight, you know, kind of hidden gems in real community places, special places, and people.

And I think that that's a powerful tool.

So I think sharing these stories is important.

- Yeah.

And I know that, oh, sorry, Randy, I didn't mean to step on you.

- I said indeed, I'm sorry.

[James laughs] - And I know that, you know, when we say, you know, we want these trails to be for everyone too, I know that there's a lot of initiatives to ramp up ADA accessibility in certain places and to help, you know, those who who might not be able to get out and walk the trail, to still get out and be on the trail, which is really important.

And I know that we featured that within our Sugar Creek Greenway piece and there's the Longleaf Pine Trail as well that we also covered.

So there's plenty of resources out there if you need to figure out which trails are ADA accessible.

And I highly encourage you all to go out and look for them if that's something that you need to do.

We're almost out of time here, and I kind of wanted to ask us one last question, and I'm gonna start out with you Jeremiah first and then I'll call and do a round robin here.

But you know, Jeremiah, this project was 10 months in the making for us, and I really just wanna know, you know, after all is said and done, and we've watched it and got to share it with everybody, our friends, family, loved ones, and new friends here online.

You know, what are you taking away from this?

- I'm just glad you didn't ask me which was my favorite spot because that would've been a difficult answer.

What do I take away from this?

Like I said earlier, I am just in, I feel like I'm the newbie to this.

I feel like everyone on this panel already knows this, but I feel like I walked away with a better understanding of my state.

I feel like there's so many little nooks and crannies to our state that I've never explored and couldn't possibly imagine existed.

I was completely blown away by DuPont, the falls there are just spectacular.

And I just didn't, I had no idea something like that existed.

So I think my real takeaway is a growth to get out more, to explore more.

And I've got two little boys, a four-year-old and a five-month-old, and hopefully start exploring with them some and looking forward to those adventures and memories to make.

- Yeah, Matt, you wanna take that question as well?

- Yeah, sure.

I think a big thing, you know, being involved in the early stages of the casting, I'm definitely taking away from it just new people, new friends, you know, across the state from Vivianette and Randy and, you know, everyone else.

It's like we get close in the beginning, because I'm asking you all kinds of questions.

We're doing Zooms and whatever, and then I don't hear from you for a bit.

And then I see the footage and it's just so beautiful.

And yeah, so I feel like I've new connections across the state that I love and I've just learned so much about all the different trails.

We really had to dive deep, figure out where we wanted to go.

And each person that we went out with taught me a little bit of something new about a trail, because they all really were informed.

I mean, these people are really out there doing it.

They're not actors or paid models or something.

Like these are the real people that are doing it and they've each taught me so much.

So those two things, yeah.

- That's great.

Vivianette, do you wanna speak to that question as well?

- Yeah, I would say that participating in Ten to Try was an amazing experience.

It allowed me to be a representation outdoors, which I think is really important.

Reflecting on my journey, when I look back, I didn't see myself represented outdoors.

So I think that something that comes to mind is the lack of Latina representation in these activities.

And me being able to take viewers through the amazing DuPont Forest and show them these amazing waterfalls was just a very, very special, special experience that I'll take with me.

- Randy, you wanna speak to that question as well?

- Encapsulate the question again briefly, if you would, so I'm focused.

- Yeah, I'm happy to.

So within this Year of the Trail, within this Ten to Try piece, you know, and your participation in it, what do you kind of take away from this experience and sharing your story with everyone and what do you hope to share with people maybe in the future?

- Well, I might have nodded at this a few seconds ago, but I think Grandfather Mountain has meant so much to me throughout my entire life, the experience there, that it kind of helped me see how knowing that mountain has really been a centerpiece of my entire life, and I think this program could very well easily be a Hundred to Try instead instead of Ten to Try.

So I think communicating to people that there is so much, so many places out there in North Carolina where you can invent your own natural narrative, you know, was an important part of this.

And I think, let me nod at Jeremiah, his videography was just so special.

I, there was one part down east in one of the vignettes where the script says, "And these beautiful longleaf pines and oaks."

And the minute, the minute the longleaf pines were in focus, the focus shifted to the oaks along with the words of the script.

And it's just very elegant, you know, it was very movingly and effectively done.

And I think the whole program has been like that.

- Well, thank you, Randy, and thank you to everyone here.

I think just like every great trail, there's a beginning and an end to it.

And I believe that we've reached the end of our discussion today.

So thank you all so, so much.

Our goal for this project was to create something educational, entertaining, engaging, and it was all in the hopes that you could learn more about our trail system, be inspired by it, and get out and be a part of it.

And I hope that we were able to do that today.

So I want to thank our panel, Jeremiah McLamb, Matt Chenet, Vivianette Ortiz, and Randy Johnson, and our ASL Interpreter Tiffany Patterson, and our featured trail guides who weren't able to be with us today, Laura Blythe, Jeremy Hyatt, Kim Olige, Jennifer Michelle and the Culture Queens, Jen Weaver, Heber Coltrain, Paula Gilligan, Kathy Meyer, Caitlin Gooch, and of course, many thanks to you all for logging on and participating in this conversation as well.

And again, I'm sorry about the technical difficulties and you had to see me kind of miming for about three minutes or so.

I appreciate you all sticking with us and taking care of that.

It is with my deep gratitude that on behalf of PBS North Carolina, we thank our production partner, The Great Trails State Coalition, and to the State Employees Credit Union Foundation for their generous support for making all of this happen.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

I want to thank Heather Burgess, Laura Keeler, and our friends working on the technical side of this presentation tonight.

Karen Noack and Josh Kenard, they are amazing, Ten to Try: Trails premieres this Thursday, August 31st at 8:30 PM on PBS NC and the PBS app.

So if you wanna take another watch at it, you certainly can, and we hope that you do so.

Please be on the lookout in your inbox for an email with a link to this evening's discussion, helpful resources, and the links to learn more about the trails featured in tonight's special to ensure PBS North Carolina continues to bring you popular PBS shows, riveting documentaries, how-to programs, captivating arts and music shows, Rootle, our 24-hour kids channel, and free and engaging training and community discussion events like this one.

I hope you're inspired to make a tax deductible donation to PBS NC and safely and securely at pbsnc.org.

And if you are already a member, we appreciate you so much.

With that, thank you all again for joining us today and for your support of this programming in PBS North Carolina.

We cannot not do it without viewers like you.

And until we meet again, stay safe and well, and happy trails, everyone.

Thank you.